5 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

We're about a month in and it's still almost impossible to paint default aircraft

Wait, I thought they unencrypted the Standard version planes in the last patch? This was confirmed in the unencryption wishlist thread: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/request-for-the-unencryption-and-full-downloadability-of-default-aircraft-in-msfs-2024/667001/325

The Deluxe and Premium Deluxe planes are still encrypted though. Did you mean it's impossible to do liveries for Deluxe and Premium Deluxe planes? Because it shouldn't be impossible to do liveries for Standard version planes now since they they are no longer encrypted.

6 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

If you are doing free flight and you are doing it with a 3rd party plane like you would be with the upcoming A350 from iniBuilds, it works fairly well.

This is all I do and I agree it is basically working, but there are still many glitches. Twice during preflight I have had my aircraft shoot up 1,500 feet in the air; then there is the "assign some random registration to the aircraft on every flight" issue; the "cannot turn off the irritating 'back on track'" feature and the absence of all my Marketplace content. I could go on but you get the idea.

I do not want to seem overly harsh, I agree in Free Flight it is working relatively well if I use a third-party aircraft, but so many irritating things.

1 hour ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

The only question is:  What is inibuilds seeing to make them want to release a 2020 version and release both versions at the same time?  It can't just be the customer comments.

It almost always comes down to money.  A lot of people in MSFS 2020 haven't migrated to MSFS 2024 yet.  So the MSFS market is split between 2020 and 2024 at the moment.  iniBuilds wants to maximize their profit and revenue, so with a lot of people from MSFS 2020 that haven't migrated to MSFS 2024 yet, it makes sense for them to target MSFS 2020 as well.

I assume iniBuilds thought the release of MSFS 2024 was going to be much better than it was, and that more people would have migrated to MSFS 2024 by now.  iniBuilds didn't want to maintain two versions of their A350 because that makes the code more complex and it consumes more developer time (and more developer time costs money). 

But now, the sales they would lose by making the A350 only MSFS 2024 exclusive, versus the increased development time to maintain a 2020 and 2024 version, iniBuilds has decided the loss in sales outweighs the increased development time.

TLDR: money from lost MSFS 2020 sales > money from increased developer time to support MSFS 2020

Edited December 19, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

25 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

It almost always comes down to money.  A lot of people in MSFS 2020 haven't migrated to MSFS 2024 yet.  So the MSFS market is split between 2020 and 2024 at the moment.  iniBuilds wants to maximize their profit and revenue, so with a lot of people from MSFS 2020 that haven't migrated to MSFS 2024 yet, it makes sense for them to target MSFS 2020 as well.

I assume iniBuilds thought the release of MSFS 2024 was going to be much better than it was, and that more people would have migrated to MSFS 2024 by now.  iniBuilds didn't want to maintain two versions of their A350 because that makes the code more complex and it consumes more developer time (and more developer time costs money). 

But now, the sales they would lose by making the A350 only MSFS 2024 exclusive, versus the increased development time to maintain a 2020 and 2024 version, iniBuilds has decided the loss in sales outweighs the increased development time.

TLDR: money from lost MSFS 2020 sales > money from increased developer time to support MSFS 2020

LOL, yeah, somehow, I don't think that this is the case (or the entire picture).  They could make money either way if 2024 didn't have the post patch issue that's already been addressed by ASOBO.

I think they might be seeing a further delay in the fix for the patch from ASOBO.  That's purely conjecture on my part, but that's likely the reason behind why a lot of people are re-installing 2020 at this point.   It may be more accurate to say the latest patch compounded on top of the other issues is what's causing it.

You need to look a little deeper sometimes.  While the finances may be the end result, it is not necessarily what caused it initially.  They may not have had to make that decision in the first place had this not happened.  Also, just because they made the decision to do a 2020 build, doesn't necessarily equate to a profit.  It could also be to rescue the product.  Sometimes companies end up spending money because they have to.  Again, not saying any of these are the reasons behind their decision, but you have to recognize that we aren't in their shoes either.

You're also preaching to the choir when you talk to me about flight sim markets and sales figures.  Been there, done that, even though quite a while ago.

I appreciate your passion and interest in this area, and you aren't wrong a lot of the time, but sometimes generalizing doesn't always show the whole picture.  I also recognize we might be talking over each other on some things.

IMO, I think they had it right to go 2024 given what they 'presumably' knew at the time.  To have to go back and make another branch can't be an easy decision to make.  I actually hope for our sake, not theirs, that they end up being wrong.  If it doesn't, it means we the consumers could be benching 2024 for quite some time.  That was kind of my main point.

Edited December 19, 20241 yr by Jeff Nielsen

23 minutes ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

I think they might be seeing a further delay in the fix for the patch from ASOBO.  That's purely conjecture on my part

 

The next patch scheduled is Sim Update 1.  I am pretty sure Sim Update 1 will be released in Q1 as scheduled.  Because they are going back to the public open beta, that may slow things down a little for Sim Update 1, but I don't see any reason why Sim Update 1 won't be released by Q1 as scheduled.

I expect Sim Update 1 to be just a bunch of fixes, and to enable the MSFS Marketplace.  I don't think there will be any major new features for Sim Update 1, so I doubt that it will be delayed.  If there is a major new feature coming into MSFS 2024 and it's not ready yet, that would delay Sim Update 1.  But Sim Update 1 is just going to be a bunch of bug fixes so I'm pretty sure it will be released without delay, according to their schedule (which is Q1 of 2025).

7 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

I'm saying I firmly believe they had a lot of pressure from MS to move forward with 2024 only.  With the rough release month the end user has spoken... users are leaving 2024.  Recent spikes are the previous two patch releases.

I've supported/defended 2024 from the get go but the amount of bugs, I'm meaning BASIC effing bugs, is atrocious.  At this point, the negatives out-weigh the positives.  We need a SOLID patch 4 or SU1 or whatever to get this thing back on track.

 

V2020 had comparable numbers and the same descending hockey stick user graph.

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

The next patch scheduled is Sim Update 1.  I am pretty sure Sim Update 1 will be released in Q1 as scheduled.  Because they are going back to the public open beta, that may slow things down a little for Sim Update 1, but I don't see any reason why Sim Update 1 won't be released by Q1 as scheduled.

I expect Sim Update 1 to be just a bunch of fixes, and to enable the MSFS Marketplace.  I don't think there will be any major new features for Sim Update 1, so I doubt that it will be delayed.  If there is a major new feature coming into MSFS 2024 and it's not ready yet, that would delay Sim Update 1.  But Sim Update 1 is just going to be a bunch of bug fixes so I'm pretty sure it will be released without delay, according to their schedule (which is Q1 of 2025).

Ah, yeah, I see now.  Not sure if you have all the information.  You are correct as far as the original schedule goes (which is still current minus a fix).

So, the latest patch that introduced the major stutters, is one issue.  ASOBO is aware of it.  Per Eric at ASOBO they left out the fix that was supposed to be in this latest patch (our current build).  It was in their build but got left out somehow.  I think I have that right for the most part.  Eric did say there is NO ETA on the patch, so still not sure.

The hope is, yes, it still goes as planned.  The push from the community is a hot fix prior to the holidays.  If we were to get at least the stutter issue fixed, I would think ini could just stay with 2024, but they aren't.  Again, the latter is just speculation on my part.

The fear is there might be more to it than meets the eye, hence ini deciding to do a 2020 version.  Again, pure speculation.  We hope at worst case it is all resolved at the latest in Q1 sometime.  Preferably early Q1.

 

8 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

I'm saying I firmly believe they had a lot of pressure from MS to move forward with 2024 only.  With the rough release month the end user has spoken... users are leaving 2024.  Recent spikes are the previous two patch releases.

I've supported/defended 2024 from the get go but the amount of bugs, I'm meaning BASIC effing bugs, is atrocious.  At this point, the negatives out-weigh the positives.  We need a SOLID patch 4 or SU1 or whatever to get this thing back on track.

 

 

8 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

Well ini is a contractor for MS so.....

I think we all expected 2024 to have a smoother launch.  While there are some excellent new features, there are a HOST of bugs.  Some bugs were from early 2020 days.. it's almost like they uploaded an old build of 2020 for 2024 haha.

We're about a month in and it's still almost impossible to paint default aircraft, there are hardly any community mods, there are numerous bugs, even after the big patch 3... so a lot of people went back to 2020.

Heck I just made a post about my cpu RAM going to 46GB lol - that's insanity.  They need to optimize it better for use with community addons. 

+1  

I can’t say I was surprised when MSFS 2024 launched with a fair share of glitches, especially given the complexities of integrating the  infamous streaming platform. However, what shocks me is that a month has passed since release, and the issues go beyond just "server".  

Visually, MSFS 2024 is undeniably impressive. Flying helicopters low and slow brings a whole new vibe with its bluish horizons, detailed mesh, and immersive mountains. Its visual feels like a step forward. In comparison, MSFS 2020 is still very very good in its own in some areas, most importantly: stability.

It’s hard to fully commit to MSFS 2024 when one night the fps drops without apparent reasons with stutters fest, and the next day it runs super smooth and stable (like I had today). 

 

Best decision ever. I wouldn't touch it until 2024 is actually usable and that will probably take ages.

Really good news. I hope Ini rise to the occasion and do this incredible aircraft justice. Its a complex one so I can imagine it will take a few updates to get right. Barring an unexpected home run out of the box I'll be waiting for those updates before purchasing but I'm excited, the long haul circle will be complete now.

1 hour ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

The fear is there might be more to it than meets the eye, hence ini deciding to do a 2020 version.  Again, pure speculation.  We hope at worst case it is all resolved at the latest in Q1 sometime.  Preferably early Q1.

I think it speaks volumes that a major contractor for Microsoft has decided that they're going to have to release a product for what is, in theory, a platform that has now been superceded, in order to keep the revenue flowing.

Here we are, a month in and I don't actually have a plane to fly in 2024 that isn't bugged to a greater or lesser extent and at thus moment no actual idea of when any further fixes will be arriving.

Jorge and Asobo appear to have gone underwater.......

10 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

I think it speaks volumes that a major contractor for Microsoft has decided that they're going to have to release a product for what is, in theory, a platform that has now been superceded, in order to keep the revenue flowing.

Here we are, a month in and I don't actually have a plane to fly in 2024 that isn't bugged to a greater or lesser extent and at thus moment no actual idea of when any further fixes will be arriving.

Jorge and Asobo appear to have gone underwater.......

IMHO the true irresponsibility of the MSFS management in this almost universally catastrophic release of MSFS 2024 is reflected in how their behavior has willfully caused lasting damage to the coding community:

All payware developers will think twice before committing exclusively to a platform that is both technically unstable and carelessly crafted.

And the freeware scene? It is practically dead for MSFS 2024 at the moment.

Goal achieved?

😕

Many users are abandoning MSFS2024, cheking the steamdb.info :

online players @9:34 ZT 19/12/2024

MSFS2020  3.229

MSFS2024  2.148

Oh good, another conversation about the problems in 2024, in a thread about an aircraft coming to 2020.

Do you lads understand how tedious you all are? Give it a rest for the love of God.

27 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Jorge and Asobo appear to have gone underwater.......

While it's fine to be unhappy with them and the state of MSFS24's release, we should all prefer that they have "gone underwater."
Like all devs, spending several hours each preparing for and appearing in a Q&A / update video takes away from spending valuable time on getting on with the tasks at hand.

We don't need weekly updates. No news usually means dilligently getting on with the necessary fixes and improvements.
I think most people would appreciate faster improvements than another 'dev update' / marketing video.