Getting back to the OP...after thinking about the idea of AI traffic all being equal as well as the users plane and AI ATC handling the traffic in a manner that would be like normal..AI ATC should use holds for IFR and "extend your downwind, I'll call your base" for VFR and such for proper spacing. Got to remember this isnt canned commands. If its real AI and the AI has been trained to use tools like holds, speed restrictions, extended legs etc to provide proper spacing while at the same time seem the users plane as an equal to all other planes, then this will be something big.

I've been flying on BATC with their traffic but I'm not seeing AI ATC giving holds nor any radio calls that leads me to believe proper spacing is being done. So if they are not doing it, then this will a first in simming history. I'll know more on April 15th when its released to us in the partners program.

9 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Scammers make millions of dollars every day from people that trust them. 

No doubt about that! But I really don't see any proof the developers of SI are scammers or whatever. All I see in this thread is a link to a Reddit post where a disgruntled person is raising a suspicion. Innocent until proven guilty right? But the witch hunt is on anyway. And then, according to @Tuskin38, I'm the one with terrible moral...

Edited March 16, 20251 yr by Rimshot

8 hours ago, Georgleboui said:

..
And instead any discussion around SI gets brigaded by either people complaining about price or BATC comparisons.
..

And yeah look I agree that their marketing comes off a bit strong. I’m not entirely happy about the more boasting side - but I chalk it up to Brian’s experience in the med tech space. That’s exactly how startups market themselves and personally while it does feel jarring in the flight sim world it doesn’t bother me too much. 

 

Well, it's great that Brian made a big show of having a "Congrats Say Intentions from Beyond ATC" cake produced for himself to then make a video with. In my work ecosystem, this would usually result in a C&D letter and the offending party being blackballed from doing business with any of our brokers that had a relationship with the other guy. It's just performative, hyperbolic nonsense that makes him look like a jerk. He invites the comparisons to BATC and it's part of how he clout farms from them to drive more engagement - this is pretty basic social media manipulation stuff and has been super clear since SI was announced.

I work in tech, and I specifically work in marketing strategy and go-to-market supporting small companies, usually with very tight portfolios and a small market. This is not a successful strategy, and if I saw one of my clients doing this, I would slowly walk away and start looking for new business. 

Botting the replies is a stunt, giving away free memberships for glaze vids is a stunt, the cake's a stunt, it's all a giant web of stunts. In a way, it's the perfect AI venture - viral marketing that you quite literally can't disengage from, vague promises, underbaked product that hallucinates all the time, staunch defenders because they're still captivated by an LLM (you could dangle keys at the same people). You'll also say you only need the gimmicks until you scale, but since they've always worked, you'll keep using them. At some point, you run out of stunts, and realize you've torpedoed your brand, while spending so much time and effort on the performance.

I've seen it play out dozens of times at work.

Contrast this to BATC that hasn't done any of this, has just put in the work, and has a program that boasts a *lot* less but maybe delivers better? I'm not sold on any of these things quite yet, but given that I've seen predatory marketing jobs fleece large clients out of millions, I figured a bit of perspective on this very annoying marketing campaign might help.

Maybe he's stopped for now. The FSE reply I thought was a bot was actually somebody who talks like ChatGPT... put it into an AI detector along with other comments they posted and got nothing. 

7 minutes ago, mspencer said:

Well, it's great that Brian made a big show of having a "Congrats Say Intentions from Beyond ATC" cake produced for himself to then make a video with.

Wait, I saw that video, he made that himself? 

Looks like this dude has absolutely no moral compass.

17 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Wait, I saw that video, he made that himself? 

Looks like this dude has absolutely no moral compass.

I get a sense it's a pretty embarrassing moment to the team, which makes me believe that it wasn't Brian's doing.

Far likelier was that it was a prank by someone - otherwise what's the point? To show that BATC has a bit of class and that there is a friendly relationship between the two teams? Just don't see what the angle is.

If anything Brian comes off better here having congratulated the BATC team on various milestones over the last year. You'd think they'd return the favour.

8 hours ago, Ident said:

Getting back to the OP...after thinking about the idea of AI traffic all being equal as well as the users plane and AI ATC handling the traffic in a manner that would be like normal..AI ATC should use holds for IFR and "extend your downwind, I'll call your base" for VFR and such for proper spacing. Got to remember this isnt canned commands. If its real AI and the AI has been trained to use tools like holds, speed restrictions, extended legs etc to provide proper spacing while at the same time seem the users plane as an equal to all other planes, then this will be something big.

I've been flying on BATC with their traffic but I'm not seeing AI ATC giving holds nor any radio calls that leads me to believe proper spacing is being done. So if they are not doing it, then this will a first in simming history. I'll know more on April 15th when its released to us in the partners program.

Exactly this, I’ve noticed BaTC artificially unrealistically speeds up traffic or slows them down in comparison to the players location, with no requests to maintain speed or anything verbal in regards to sequencing or spacing. 
 

 

I just wish they would work on those things and add more variety. 

38 minutes ago, Georgleboui said:

Far likelier was that it was a prank by someone

Um sure... it was probably his dog who ate his credit card or pet parrot who ordered it over Alexa something like that....

2 hours ago, mspencer said:

Well, it's great...

Again, where is the proof of all these allegations? Everything you wrote is speculation.

Sorry wrong thread. I thought this was the thread about SI’s new trailer. 

It is. Its also about aggressive marketing techniques, about unsupported claims found on the internet, making claims that active users here in this forum are bots. Google John Barron if you want to find out about the ultimate self hype PR person used to get their brand name out. 

BATC is a great product but it is exactly what you think it is. AI ATC and AI Traffic. Thats it. Nothing more. SI is something that is way more than that. AI- Ops, AI-CoPilot, Mission generator, Able to text you your next job and when you start your flight you get the client/passenger talking to you, Linked to your OnAir, Tour Guide, AI-Crew members the list goes on and on as they continue to push the boundaries of what AI can do for this hobby. With this trailer showing whats next of having AI Traffic done in a way that has not been done yet.

Yes there is a free version and for those who want more theres a subscription version. Just like theres free TV via broadcasting networks and theres cable.

23 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Personally, all I am looking for is a default ATC system as good as the one in P3Dv4.

I could live with an upgraded default ATC system after buying both BATC and FSHud.  I find BATC gives too little instruction on departure and arrivals, managed mountainous terrain perhaps as bad or worse than default 2020 ATC and that is a terrible insult to BATC.  BATC has some 600+ customized airport operations because their basic method to determine departure and arrival sits entirely on winds reported via their source of ATIS and does not consider your plane, available runways for your particular plane and offers no way out, no override if they did not happen to customize the particular airport in question.  I let them know about the idiosyncrasies surrounding KTEX for departures and arrivals and they will fix this in an update.  I'd far rather them enable an override option for this like FSHud does, but I don't believe they will budge on that.

I think if MSFS tapped into good AI voicings and generally improve ATC it could be decent enough for me and I predict it will be easier on performance than 3rd party options.

Let's hope that the story about WT working on the default ATC system is more than just a myth Unfortunately, that will probably only apply to MSFS 2024

Edited March 16, 20251 yr by Christopher Low

4 minutes ago, Noel said:

I think if MSFS tapped into good AI voicings and generally improve ATC it could be decent enough for me and I predict it will be easier on performance than 3rd party options.

Asobo did amazing things with visuals starting in MSFS2020 and huge advancements in weather. While buggy, career mode seems to be a big hit so I can see why and how its been used to grow the user base. However, if they hadnt focused on adding Career mode and used the time and resources to develop AI ATC and Traffic like the big three (BATC, SI, FSHUD) are doing then that too would be a huge leap forward for the sim.

Hopefully, it can still be done within MSFS2024 without needing a whole new future release to bring that into the sim natively. I just have my doubts on Asobo working on AI ATC and Traffic as a high priority for the foreseen future.

16 minutes ago, Ident said:

I just have my doubts on Asobo working on AI ATC and Traffic as a high priority for the foreseen future.

That's why I decided to try BATC and FSHUd

Presently BATC directs AI to bactrack at pretty much all airports / rws 😕

Just landed at LPPT 20, and while there are taxiways for 20, the airbus waiting for me to land was told to backtrack on 20 as soon as I vacated the runway, and it's been this way since one of the last updates ...