21 hours ago, GoranM said:

Pushing toliss’s involvement in MSFS, beyond what it is, is detrimental to them, the x plane and MSFS community. People have already started asking questions about toliss possibly abandoning x plane and leaving products unsupported. This isn’t fair to anyone. 

IMHO it's fair game to raise concerns as to possible outcomes, especially since several notable X-Plane developers have utterly abandoned the platform (iB, Cowan, Carenado), and others, such as Just Flight, have had difficulties maintaining their presence in XP 12.

This doesn't mean that we should doubt Toliss, but questions based on evidence are hardly "unfair".

 

22 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

It may be that there is some concern that Toliss will follow a similar path as iniBuilds did.

That didn't turn out well for iB's X-Plane customers at all.

We've no control over it though, and the Toliss team is not the iB team, so we can hope it's as Toliss have asserted, or at least similar to your JF analogy where both communities are served.

I saw some evidence back then that IniBuilds was shifting to MSFS. When I went to iniBuild's website back a few years ago before they switched, the new scenery and airport add-ons they developed were all for MSFS. That told me that Ubaid probably saw good returns from MSFS from the scenery and airport add-ons division of his company.

I don't see any evidence of that with Toliss. I'm going to guess that Toliss will stick XP for some time. I would have to see further compelling evidence like I did with iniBuilds to change my mind.

6 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I saw some evidence back then that IniBuilds was shifting to MSFS. When I went to iniBuild's website back a few years ago before they switched, the new scenery and airport add-ons they developed were all for MSFS. That told me that Ubaid probably saw good returns from MSFS from the scenery and airport add-ons division of his company.

I don't see any evidence of that with Toliss. I'm going to guess that Toliss will stick XP for some time. I would have to see further compelling evidence like I did with iniBuilds to change my mind.

I'm not sure why MS2024 needs Toliss? It doesn't. Toliss has nothing to bring to the table that we don't have already.

2 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I saw some evidence back then that IniBuilds was shifting to MSFS. When I went to iniBuild's website back a few years ago before they switched, the new scenery and airport add-ons they developed were all for MSFS. That told me that Ubaid probably saw good returns from MSFS from the scenery and airport add-ons division of his company.

I don't see any evidence of that with Toliss. I'm going to guess that Toliss will stick XP for some time. I would have to see further compelling evidence like I did with iniBuilds to change my mind.

Yes. And to be clear, my concern with iB was always about HOW they handled it rather than WHAT they did.

At the end of the day, though, iB was a niche dev in XP.

Toliss is a cornerstone Hi Fi dev, though...

If (and I emphasize "IF") Toliss were to further expand their partnership with Aerosoft, I would hope they would do it through net growth rather than a reduction in their XP support.

In any case, Business is Business, as they say. We can only hope that Toliss' partnership is a tide that lifts all boats over the long term.

As I've said, I welcome their expertise coming to MSFS, it's a great thing - and Aerosoft certainly need the help.👍

3 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

I'm not sure why MS2024 needs Toliss? It doesn't. Toliss has nothing to bring to the table that we don't have already.

See my post above.

It's not MSFS that needs help, it's Aerosoft.

And we should all welcome additional expert talent to the sim. And even if there is already a bumper crop of Airbuses, this partnership could just as easily grow to different airframes.

And tho Toliss are very well regarded for their systems, their graphics work has always been their weak spot. Aerosoft has a good track record there, so it's a complementary relationship.

I would hope some of that synergy is funneled back to the XP Toliss add-ons, as well.

More devs making more money is good for all of us.

4 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

It's not MSFS that needs help, it's Aerosoft.

Yup. The Toliss just happens to be the best Airbus in XP but it's nowhere near as good  an all round, all dancing product as the Fenix. EDIT And it's ridiculously expensive.

Edited July 2, 2025Jul 2 by jarmstro

12 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

I'm not sure why MS2024 needs Toliss? It doesn't. Toliss has nothing to bring to the table that we don't have already.

Yet everybody will rush out and purchase it. 

30 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Yup. The Toliss just happens to be the best Airbus in XP but it's nowhere near as good  an all round, all dancing product as the Fenix. EDIT And it's ridiculously expensive.

These are good points.

While I'm utterly unqualified to speak of the relative accuracy of High Fidelity add-ons, I do note that Toliss add-ons are officially in professional use within Airbus themselves. And since Toliss aren't known for their cutting edge graphics, we can confidently assume Airbus is using Toliss because of the accuracy of their systems.

///

Addon pricing in XP is relatively high, but only relative to the modern MSFS. Remember that it wasn't too long ago that Carenados sold for $40, where today the very same add-ons are $20, et al.

Or, do you think that a $50 A2A light GA single engine piston isn't "ridiculously expensive"...?

Or an $80 MD-80?

How about the old FSL $125 A320?

Or the $99 PMDG Base 737...?

Or their Mac Daddy $215 747-8?

And Aerosoft add-ons have never been inexpensive, either. Particularly so back in the P3D days...

Revenue/Profit margin is often a chicken and egg thing, and Toliss clearly prefer to price as chicken for XP. We can hope that the new MSFS pricing examples set by PMDG & Fenix, and supported by MS, are followed by this new team.

 

Edited July 2, 2025Jul 2 by UrgentSiesta

57 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

I'm not sure why MS2024 needs Toliss? It doesn't. Toliss has nothing to bring to the table that we don't have already.

I believe the Toliss / Aerosoft collaboration has the potential to produce the highest-fidelity Airbus widebody in MSFS.

Of course that doesn't mean that MSFS absolutely needs Toliss. But I for one am looking forward to seeing what they produce.

48 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Yet everybody will rush out and purchase it. 

I think it depends a lot on whether they are first to market with a Hi Fi A340. The competition is stiff...

This thread has gone south as these types always do. MSFS 2020/2024 are incredible and they are likely the only sim(s) that most of us here fly, myself included. But these threads are pretty word not allowed useless. OP is posting captain-obvious type stuff that is only going to invite arguing.....

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

it's nowhere near as good  an all round, all dancing product as the Fenix

Nowhere near as good? Sure 😅🤦‍♂️

9 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Well ... "the likes of us" 🙂 learn from history/facts. Or is anybody here denying what MS already did in the past? And not only MS, in other big companies, management often decides after some years (for whatever reason*) that they have to align their focus to something else and boom ... Anybody denying? 😁

* Sometimes just for when they get a new CEO, because the new CEO has to show that he does everything better than the old one, and then they turn 180°. History is proof (again).

What "he" said ...

https://apnews.com/article/microsoft-layoffs-xbox-f44079957b12370f72e24edebe9fcc6b

We have a thread about the A340 already

 

37 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

What "he" said ...

https://apnews.com/article/microsoft-layoffs-xbox-f44079957b12370f72e24edebe9fcc6b

Winding down before they bin off the Xbox altogether.