2 hours ago, vonmar said:

True.

 

I have MSFS2020.
The developer initially mentioned MSFS2020 would have support for a 10 year run.  That is good.
MSFS2020 and my addons runs well with my current 2019 vintage PC.

Have not purchased a new PC (est. $5000 US as I mentioned here long ago) to support a new MSFS2024 product.

Currently waiting for MSFS2026 (or later) release / review before considering any new PC or hardware upgrade.

 

 

 

2024 often runs better than 2020 on the same hardware. You might be missing out if you think that performance will be worse. Trying it is cheap and easy

2 hours ago, vonmar said:

est. $5000 US as I mentioned here long ago) 

You really don't need a $5000 PC to run 2024.

Lets face it. We are suckers.

At least we had 2020 to fall back on for the first year and that really good at the end.

When 2020 came out, I actually went out and bought X-plane. That is how bad it was.

It was at least a year before 2020 was even usable.

If software still had Boxes and DVDs, Microsoft could just slap a sticker on top and call FS2026.

...and charge us again with a rebate price. Just like some of our add-ons do.

🤣

How big a sucker am I.

EA Sports NHL 1991-1992-1993-1994-1995-1996...you get the picture.

9 hours ago, Mace said:

I dunno.  FSW95/FS98/FS2000 or FS2002 one of those was a stutterfest for me,

Yea, I remember getting FS2000 with some excitement only to find I could hardly run it at all; I went back to 98 and abandoned 2000. FSX could also hardly run at release and had so many issues it resulted in 2 service packs, and after the second one I could kind of use it, and then the Acceleration expansion over a year later. So my memory of Flight Simulator releases is not so rosy. 

 

9 hours ago, JonathanC said:

Those times are just gone. I don't like it either. But MSFS is no more guilty of this than any major game these days.

I agree they have been gone for a while, but I am not so sure those early years of software development were better. They were kind of a necessity before wide adoption of the Internet with decent transmission speeds. And they were possible because software was generally small in size and limited in scale and delivered through physical media. You had to test, and test and really try to ensure no bugs were present before RTM, because there was no making changes after the physical media produced and if you had a bug it would be very costly, first for customer support and then, in the future, for sales.

The internet changed that and allowed software developers the freedom to try things, to learn, to iterate and the result has been much faster development cycles leading to overall accelerated progress and responsiveness. It also allowed for much more complex software -- Windows 98 was around 50 to 100 MB if I recall; Window's 11 is over 60 GB; FS98 was less than 200 MB! It is a much more delicate balance now; a true conceptual change necessitated by just how complex and interconnected software has become -- the small, self-contained programs of the 1990s are a thing of the past -- but it seems not everyone made  that conceptual move. I see it when betas are discussed and it sounds like they are thinking of a beta group from the mid 1990s.

The 2024 journey has been rough at times but I have enjoyed being along for the development ride. It seems with SU4 we are close to the simulator many of us thought would be released a year ago. I am looking forward to the next year and hope it brings the same kind of development as 2020, which brought us products like the Fenix -- just compare that experience with the tube liners of FS2004 or FSX or even P3D.

In FS9 / FSX (I still fly it) and Sims that followed, including MSFS2020, it is possible to Save a Flight.

Still cannot Save a Flight in MSFS2024 SU4 , correct?

 

54 minutes ago, Ron Lefebvre said:

It was at least a year before 2020 was even usable.

More than that for some people. I was in the very first wave of tech alpha people, and it was at least SU5 before it started getting decent. And the long wait for decent planes … 2024 is nothing like that. 

1 minute ago, JonathanC said:

More than that for some people. I was in the very first wave of tech alpha people, and it was at least SU5 before it started getting decent. And the long wait for decent planes … 2024 is nothing like that. 

And yet how quickly people forget! 

49 minutes ago, Cognita said:

I agree they have been gone for a while, but I am not so sure those early years of software development were better.

Nah that part of my comment (days gone) I’m not talking about software dev specifically. I’m talking about when companies cared more about customers. Customer support and service overall has been consistently reduced across all industries - first outsourced, and now with AI.. big companies simply don’t need to care as much. At least in North America, maybe Europe has better consumer protections. 
 

I agree with the rest of your comment. 

6 hours ago, vonmar said:

True.

 

I have MSFS2020.
The developer initially mentioned MSFS2020 would have support for a 10 year run.  That is good.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter much that Asobo will support msfs for the next 10 years. Most devs won't support it that long and a few of them already abandonned it. And the list will grow in the next few months. So 10 years in an eternity in the flightsim world.

Of course, your add-on will probably still work in the future and I have no doubts that Asobo / Microsoft will still allow msfs to access the photogrametry servers during the next 7-8 years. But It will mostly depend how good you will accept the fact that you will never be able to access the new aircrafts / sceneries coming from the devs.

Looking at that seemingly endless list of fixed bugs and more or less visible glitches, one indeed might think "what a piece of *** was that game before all those fixes". However, we should not forget several things:

• MSFS 2024 has a huge number of default aircraft and other streamed assets - compare that to e.g. FSX! So, naturally a list of fixes can be longer as we have much more choices.
• They mention every little fix in detail there - a lot of them could have been summarized like "fixes a and b for the following list of aircraft..."
• They really fixed a lot of annoyances, what was not the business model in the 2000s and 2010s - then we were lucky if any service pack arrived after one year or so.

I aggree that FS2024 was released premature, but what we got now really shines and we got 4 not too bad (yes - flying EC135 is a lot of fun now!) make good aircraft for free. I enjoyed FS2024 from the first day - looking at the good things instead of searching for problems is key nowadays in a much less than perfect world.

14 hours ago, fppilot said:

Have been an IBM PC owner/user and flight sim enthusiast since late 1981 and cannot recall any other software release of any kind over those years with a history like this. 

Legacy simmers often make my head scratch because it's like they just refuse to take off the rose-tinted glasses about what simming was like. Now MSFS is not perfect by any means but with that in mind...

I remember disctinctly digging through CFG files for both FS9 and FSX to draw out performance because it was so haphazerdly developed. For both these sims we were left in the wind with the state of the sim, only to be graced with service packs a year or even two later. Until then it was up to the community to deal with it and work with what they could.

Then there was the jenga puzzle of addons more or less required for a good experience and if any of them decided they weren't having it, that's your whole sim experience gone for the evening. 

I won't even get into the prices of said addons just to have a decent experience, something that was marginally believable. 

Now like I said previouly MSFS is not perfect, but so many of my gripes with the early days of simming compared to now is both cheaper, quicker and a hell of a lot more stable. Then I'm reminded of the fact that Asobo doesn't leave me in the dark, while they release SU after SU within a year, fixing hundreds of bugs then additionally improving upon the platform without any additional cost from me.

I cannot for the life of me understand how you can't recall no other software with a worse history than msfs

Your reality must be so different to mine.   As St Mawgan said, I too have had the best year of flight sim enjoyment in 21 years - by a large margin.  

Sorry that your experience has somehow been so negative, enough to urge you to post this thread, that I just cannot empathise with.

15 hours ago, fppilot said:

This is truely not intended to be any form of troll.  Seriously. and fully sincere.  Have been on this site since 1998 or 1999.  When was it that Sierra Propilot was released.  Was here prior to that. 

Having just reviewed the list of what was addressed in SU4, a year after 2024 release, and still having valued aircraft addons , sceneries, and liveries not yet fully compatible, all I can say is we are nearing what should have been MSFS 2026.  Just look at that list.

Have been an IBM PC owner/user and flight sim enthusiast since late 1981 and cannot recall any other software release of any kind over those years with a history like this.  I appreciate what we have, recognize some is still missing, and scratch my head at the time needed to reach MSFS 2024.  I look back a year and ask what were they thinking.

Would you buy flight sim hardware with that many issues?

Just feel it needs to be said.  Customers deserve better.
 

Fair points. 

im decidedly in the other side of the fence. 

I jumped in to v2024 about a week after release. And though v2020 remained fully installed and I kept it updated, quite honestly I’ve never been even tempted to go back. 

So I’m in the camp that’s genuinely happy the 2024 was released “early”  

 

8 hours ago, vonmar said:

The developer initially mentioned MSFS2020 would have support for a 10 year run.

We need to bury this bit of hoary internet myth once and for all. 

Jorg was talking about MSFS, the franchise, having at least a 10 year run. NOT v2020!!!!

he was addressing legitimate simmer concerns that MS would pull another FSX - MS Flight big splash and then abandon the game a year later.

they’ve well and truly put that fear to bed over the last 5 years. 

But in no way did they ever mean that v2020 is a 10 year project where they continue to improve and upgrade, etc  

and given the monthly recurring server/datacenter/bandwidth/staffing costs, I’m not sure they can even afford to. It’ll be dependent on how much money the 2020 MP is able to reliably pull in. And when costs eventually outweigh revenue, it’ll be lights out for 2020  

so, yeah MSFS is well along its “10 year” arc, and v2024 IS the next step!

we WILL have v2028, etc. ad infinitum, and they will all still be MSFS 😁👍

Edited December 9, 2025Dec 9 by UrgentSiesta

21 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Fair points. 

im decidedly in the other side of the fence. 

I jumped in to v2024 about a week after release. And though v2020 remained fully installed and I kept it updated, quite honestly I’ve never been even tempted to go back. 

So I’m in the camp that’s genuinely happy the 2024 was released “early”  

 

 

Same here. As long as the previous sim version is still kept supported and working, there was absolutely no need for anyone to jump on the sim early if the quality and bugginess was below their tolerance level.

So whether it was released too early or not doesn't matter, it is on the user to determine their level of comfort with stability/bugs before adopting the new sim. With large complex software systems, the early days after release is more likely going to be buggy/unstable than not.

For me, with 2020 still installed, 2024 was fun to use in the early weeks/months despite the issues. After about SU2 I was hardly using 2020, and after SU3 I only go to 2020 if I have an itch to fly an aircraft that's not available or working properly in 2024 yet.

Edited December 9, 2025Dec 9 by lwt1971