27 minutes ago, simsuper80 said:

Now this I don't really understand. This is something that is GLARINGLY noticable even when you are paying attention to flying the plane. At least for me.

Perhaps, Marco, not all machines are tuned identically, and that doesn't need to be stated because absolutely they aren't: TLOD, OLOD, various slider settings, and of course hardware elements and even zoom factor. I've looked since a few whine about this one element among a thousand elements that produce total visual quality possible and TBH, yes, I've seen it, but with how i'm configured it's just very modest and in normal operation, again, use SLC, BATC, GSX, it's just low on my totem pole as something that demands attention. Do you use an accurate FoV zoom level? I don't, I've always preferred zoomed out because I appreciate the sense of speed and general sharpening of texture details over realist FoV zoom factors. That perhaps is a substantial reason why it's just one of a few other 'pop-ins' that occur in the sim and that just aren't something to focus on during normal flight. My pre-flight takes around 30 minutes or so, plane-dependent. During that time I'm interacting with ground and flight crew, configuring the plane and all of that. I don't typically gander at incoming aircraft during pre-flight. Next comes taxi. I'm paying close attention to maintaining proper taxi speed, looking for taxi conflicts with other aircraft, etc. About the only time I will potentially notice the landing gear issue is when I'm holding for an approaching aircraft. With my settings, this happens perhaps once every 6 flight or so. And then? I might notice gear is visually corrupt....or was that because it was just coming down?...but more often than not it's hardly noticeable. I remember when the chronically neg simmer here challenged my statement, back then, that pop-ins weren't happening often at all. I produced a video and you couldn't hardly discern a pop-in was happening in a visually dense approach and landing and displayed it here. Point being: how we use the sim matters, as well as all of those other factors influencing manifestation of visual shortcomings. This is why I suggested people who let themselves be bothered by this or that shortcoming from perfection they direct their attention elsewhere, to aiming for a perfect flight in terms of execution and even keeping passengers happy. This is what Self Loading Cargo offers.

9 hours ago, Farlis said:

He is totally correct. I use the AIG packages and almost none of the included aircraft suffer the problem. But a few select ones do very much. It's particularly bad with the 787.

Umm no. I use AIG and i see it for myself. Added to the fact that @Kaiii3 was in the chat and he and Raul from FSreborn commented in disagreement to Sebs comments about LOD when he started to talk gibberish on the topic.

There is a secondary culling method active on top of the LOD system and it cuts off small parts of the model depending on viewpoint and screen size. It was explained in the linked thread below.

https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/t/sim-culls-model-parts-and-ignores-lods-of-the-model/17174/10

Now Seb could have maybe not known about this technique being implemented but Martial should definitely had known about it and spoke up.. but nah... easier to obfuscate and move to the next topic before getting pressed.

Same thing applies to the weather. We all know by now that they are probably contractually limited by metoblue to creating third party access api's. That is a given so asking about access is a waste of a question. The question should have been specifically about using the current data to implement a better presentation of the weather in the sim. Addressing cloud types, density and visibility issues. But again they got a question that they can glance off with comments like "we have addressed this before".

Edited September 17Sep 17 by Maxis

Landing gear disapearing... Weather... To bring another topic to the table: it looks like Microsoft has essentially abandoned major development on the build-in ATC for MSFS. Beyond ATC and Say Intentions can secure their business model for the next 2 or 3 years ;) Surprisingly, Microsoft actually addressed my question (the form works! my first time ;)

"In an era where third-party Ai products have set high standards, what is the status of the build-in ATC? Years after bring Working Title onboard to support default ATC, can you share an update on your vision and upcoming milestones".

The answer was straightforward. Microsoft will keep fixing bugs, but they won't be developing new ATC features. Generative AI/LLMs (a.k.a non-scripted interaction), and traffic injection are completely off the table for Microsoft for now. I understand it too costly in term of usage and in term of development effort.

I need to save some money to renew my Say Intentions subscriptions ;)

Edited September 17Sep 17 by vbazillio

51 minutes ago, Noel said:

Perhaps, Marco, not all machines are tuned identically, and that doesn't need to be stated because absolutely they aren't: TLOD, OLOD, various slider settings, and of course hardware elements and even zoom factor. I've looked since a few whine about this one element among a thousand elements that produce total visual quality possible and TBH, yes, I've seen it, but with how i'm configured it's just very modest and in normal operation, again, use SLC, BATC, GSX, it's just low on my totem pole as something that demands attention. Do you use an accurate FoV zoom level? I don't, I've always preferred zoomed out because I appreciate the sense of speed and general sharpening of texture details over realist FoV zoom factors. That perhaps is a substantial reason why it's just one of a few other 'pop-ins' that occur in the sim and that just aren't something to focus on during normal flight. My pre-flight takes around 30 minutes or so, plane-dependent. During that time I'm interacting with ground and flight crew, configuring the plane and all of that. I don't typically gander at incoming aircraft during pre-flight. Next comes taxi. I'm paying close attention to maintaining proper taxi speed, looking for taxi conflicts with other aircraft, etc. About the only time I will potentially notice the landing gear issue is when I'm holding for an approaching aircraft. With my settings, this happens perhaps once every 6 flight or so. And then? I might notice gear is visually corrupt....or was that because it was just coming down?...but more often than not it's hardly noticeable. I remember when the chronically neg simmer here challenged my statement, back then, that pop-ins weren't happening often at all. I produced a video and you couldn't hardly discern a pop-in was happening in a visually dense approach and landing and displayed it here. Point being: how we use the sim matters, as well as all of those other factors influencing manifestation of visual shortcomings. This is why I suggested people who let themselves be bothered by this or that shortcoming from perfection they direct their attention elsewhere, to aiming for a perfect flight in terms of execution and even keeping passengers happy. This is what Self Loading Cargo offers.

Nobody expects a perfect sim, but when there are issues that a sim from 10-20 years ago did not have, that definitely raises some questions.

And as far as landing gear not being noticeable, I have yet to see any evidence of that. If there happens to be a video or screenshot of a very distant aircraft with its landing gear still visible, id love to see it, and I'd love to know how that is possible.

27 minutes ago, Maxis said:

Umm no. I use AIG and i see it for myself. Added to the fact that @Kaiii3 was in the chat and he and Raul from FSreborn commented in disagreement to Sebs comments about LOD when he started to talk gibberish on the topic.

There is a secondary culling method active on top of the LOD system and it cuts off small parts of the model depending on viewpoint and screen size. It was explained in the linked thread below.

https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/t/sim-culls-model-parts-and-ignores-lods-of-the-model/17174/10

Now Seb could have maybe not known about this technique being implemented but Martial should definitely had known about it and spoke up.. but nah... easier to obfuscate and move to the next topic before getting pressed.

Same thing applies to the weather. We all know by now that they are probably contractually limited by metoblue to creating third party access api's. That is a given so asking about access is a waste of a question. The question should have been specifically about using the current data to implement a better presentation of the weather in the sim. Addressing cloud types, density and visibility issues. But again they got a question that they can glance off with comments like "we have addressed this before".

Live weather can never be absolutely perfect, but I would want to see more cloud variations. Id love to see those supercell storms and high storm clouds.

My biggest wish for weather is presenting it in a form that allows a PROPER weather radar but I don't think we're ever going to see that.

6 minutes ago, simsuper80 said:

If there happens to be a video or screenshot of a very distant aircraft with its landing gear still visible

Never suggested it doesn't happen. Once again, I'm only looking at incoming aircraft when I'm holding. Otherwise, I'm not looking at aircraft in the sky and of course on the ground during taxi w/ planes in close proximity there is no issue. Moreover, you don't even see incoming aircraft when holding until they're quite close relatively speaking. Much farther out planes might not have their gear down either. There is no question that it happens is certainly not a positive attribute. But in the context of a visually stunning sim it can be made a minor issue in one's mind, especially if you focus on something other than missing landing gear. I'm also guessing all of the variables impacting experience are hardly identical and this likely plays some role in why it is that this doesn't bother many or most enough to complain repeatedly about it.

I just watched my behavior just now taking off out of CYYT in the IFly MAX 8. After TO my attention was completely focused on hand flying including focus on keeping the little circle inside the hollow circle in the HUD. I turned it over to the autopilot after about 10K feet, and of course by then there zero issues with seeing landing gear in other aircraft. Quite frankly it's hard to believe people can look for aircraft w/o landing gear in that scenario the most I could do during initial climb was a quick glance out a side window once or twice.

Edited September 17Sep 17 by Noel

10 hours ago, St Mawgan said:

Currently on my way from KABQ to KVGT in the Citation X and genuinely feeling sorry for those who only see the negative.

I can see the 14 year old me and his Psion Flight Simulator on his Spectrum and little black and white TV he bought himself after saving his milk round money for months and months and then I look at what is before me now. I'm so glad I can see what some of you can't.

Not hard to be positive about MSFS if your head is screwed on right.

dd

6 hours ago, ttbq1 said:

10 years ago reaching 30fps on P3D was an achievement with maybe 1/10 of the visual quality we are getting today on MSFS. And everyone was complaining about lack of optimization.

Today we have the most beautiful sim , reaching 120fps if needed at ultra settings flying complex aircraft (un-imaginable 10 years ago) but here we are moaning because I can't see nose landing gears on AI aircraft.....

give me a break

4 hours ago, Noel said:

I fully agree. I have to assume those whose immersion is being destroyed are hardly paying attention to flying the plane. Here's something they should consider trying: use something like Self Loading Cargo to keep you focused on something other than fricking landing gear. Fly for perfect score in plane and crew management. To be completely honest I've seen this, but it's so insignificant it's truly irrelevant for me and it's sad others let this impair their experience in an otherwise truly amazing flight sim.

Funny thing: I never really noticed it UNTIL it was brought up on AvSim.

NOW I see it, of course, but to me it’s simply another “sim-ism” and I look past it just like the myriad other unrealistic sim-isms I see in ALL the sims.

I guess my glass is just 3/4 full 😉

45 minutes ago, Noel said:

Perhaps, Marco, not all machines are tuned identically, and that doesn't need to be stated because absolutely they aren't: TLOD, OLOD, various slider settings, and of course hardware elements and even zoom factor. I've looked since a few whine about this one element among a thousand elements that produce total visual quality possible and TBH, yes, I've seen it, but with how i'm configured it's just very modest and in normal operation, again, use SLC, BATC, GSX, it's just low on my totem pole as something that demands attention. Do you use an accurate FoV zoom level? I don't, I've always preferred zoomed out because I appreciate the sense of speed and general sharpening of texture details over realist FoV zoom factors. That perhaps is a substantial reason why it's just one of a few other 'pop-ins' that occur in the sim and that just aren't something to focus on during normal flight. My pre-flight takes around 30 minutes or so, plane-dependent. During that time I'm interacting with ground and flight crew, configuring the plane and all of that. I don't typically gander at incoming aircraft during pre-flight. Next comes taxi. I'm paying close attention to maintaining proper taxi speed, looking for taxi conflicts with other aircraft, etc. About the only time I will potentially notice the landing gear issue is when I'm holding for an approaching aircraft. With my settings, this happens perhaps once every 6 flight or so. And then? I might notice gear is visually corrupt....or was that because it was just coming down?...but more often than not it's hardly noticeable. I remember when the chronically neg simmer here challenged my statement, back then, that pop-ins weren't happening often at all. I produced a video and you couldn't hardly discern a pop-in was happening in a visually dense approach and landing and displayed it here. Point being: how we use the sim matters, as well as all of those other factors influencing manifestation of visual shortcomings. This is why I suggested people who let themselves be bothered by this or that shortcoming from perfection they direct their attention elsewhere, to aiming for a perfect flight in terms of execution and even keeping passengers happy. This is what Self Loading Cargo offers.

Nobody expects a perfect sim, but when there are issues that a sim from 10-20 years ago did not have, that definitely raises some questions.

And as far as landing gear not being noticeable, I have yet to see any evidence of that. If there actually is a video or screenshot of a very distant aircraft with its landing gear still visible, id love to see it, and I'd love to know how that is possible.

32 minutes ago, Noel said:

Never suggested it doesn't happen. Once again, I'm only looking at incoming aircraft when I'm holding. Otherwise, I'm not looking at aircraft in the sky and of course on the ground during taxi w/ planes in close proximity there is no issue. Moreover, you don't even see incoming aircraft when holding until they're quite close relatively speaking. Much farther out planes might not have their gear down either. There is no question that it happens is certainly not a positive attribute. But in the context of a visually stunning sim it can be made a minor issue in one's mind, especially if you focus on something other than missing landing gear. I'm also guessing all of the variables impacting experience are hardly identical and this likely plays some role in why it is that this doesn't bother many or most enough to complain repeatedly about it.

I just watched my behavior just now taking off out of CYYT in the IFly MAX 8. After TO my attention was completely focused on hand flying including focus on keeping the little circle inside the hollow circle in the HUD. I turned it over to the autopilot after about 10K feet, and of course by then there zero issues with seeing landing gear in other aircraft. Quite frankly it's hard to believe people can look for aircraft w/o landing gear in that scenario the most I could do during initial climb was a quick glance out a side window once or twice.

The thing is, you don't really have to look around that hard. An aircraft only has to be about 400-500m (1,300-1640ft) away for the landing gear to completely disappear, and that distance can decrease if you zoom out even more from the cockpit view. That's Not that far at an airport like LAX.

So if you're waiting for a plane on final for example, you'll just see the landing gear pop into view. And then as it rolls down the runway, you'll see the gear disappear again.

I'm not alone when I say, I really hate that lol. But if you really don't pay attention to the outside whatsoever, then it won't bother some people.

Edited September 17Sep 17 by simsuper80

4 hours ago, AnkH said:

And then I see those bloody AI planes floating around... and my enthusiam is ruined.

You had me until this line. ☝️

“Ruined”…? The only thing that ruins a flight for me is a CTD or WASM issue, or maybe a crappy flight model. The former are vanishingly rare, And the latter are easy to avoid AND getting gradually reduced as well

I mean, I get what you’re saying 🤙. And hopefully you’re exaggerating to make the point.

2 minutes ago, simsuper80 said:

Nobody expects a perfect sim, but when there are issues that a sim from 10-20 years ago did not have, that definitely raises some questions.

And as far as landing gear not being noticeable, I have yet to see any evidence of that. If there actually is a video or screenshot of a very distant aircraft with its landing gear still visible, id love to see it, and I'd love to know how that is possible.

The thing is, you don't really have to look around that hard. An aircraft only has to be about 400-500m (1,300-1640ft) away for the landing gear to completely disappear, and that distance can decrease if you zoom out even more from the cockpit view. That's Not that far at an airport like LAX.

So if you're waiting for a plane on final for example, you'll just see the landing gear pop into view. And then as it rolls down the runway, you'll see the gear disappear again.

My LOD is 200, OLOD of 150. I can see a passenger waiting to debord if I move off a bit when loading the HJET. Closer it goes away. Once the devs get a handle on the LOD quirks things will settle down.

dd

Edited September 17Sep 17 by Sky_Pilot071

In all honesty, I would never have expected any serious simmers to be so dismissive of what is an immersion breaking issue. I mean, this is a flight simulator. It is supposed to simulate the real world as closely as possible. To the best of my knowledge, real world aircraft do not float above the ground like a landspeeder in Star Wars. Contrary to some comments here, this issue absolutely does manifest itself when on the ground. I see it all the time at large airports. I would prefer to see all aircraft within visual range rendered with visible undercarriage. My brain does a very good job of screaming "fake" when I see an aircraft without undercarriage. It is just wrong. Quite how some people are not affected by it at all is mind blowing to me.

3 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

In all honesty, I would never have expected any serious simmers to be so dismissive of what is an immersion breaking issue. I mean, this is a flight simulator. It is supposed to simulate the real world as closely as possible. To the best of my knowledge, real world aircraft do not float above the ground like a landspeeder in Star Wars. Contrary to some comments here, this issue absolutely does manifest itself when on the ground. I see it all the time at large airports. I would prefer to see all aircraft within visual range rendered with visible undercarriage. My brain does a very good job of screaming "fake" when I see an aircraft without undercarriage. It is just wrong. Quite how some people are not affected by it at all is mind blowing to me.

Give it time. Folks act like MSFS 2O24 is out of beta.

4 minutes ago, Sky_Pilot071 said:

Folks act like MSFS 2O24 is out of beta.

Because it is?