VC + tir4.If I don't have TIR running, I don't fly.

If you have rudder pedals and a joystick with a twist function then you can do what I do, assign the twist function on the stick to the pan view axis. Ok there is no up and down axis with this setup but I very rarely need to change the pitch view angle anyway and just assign joystick buttons to custom views if need be. I do have TrackIR too but I very rarely use it anymore.

I rarely use GA and lighter aircraft, so I spend my time mostly in (modern jet) airliners. Maybe this makes a big difference to other users. Anyway, I thought I write down my experiences with VCs.Some years ago, I tried to "get the curve" and switch to "VC only" mode, so I purchased the newly released Ariane 737-900 which at that time was VC only with - I hope I remember right - not even a handful of 2D popup panels. Though I loved the bird and flying in the VC overall was appealing, I never got used to handle the hat switch of my joystick fast and precise enough to master difficult situations. In the end, I was back to 2D.Nowadays, I see more and more planes of my interest being released not having 2D panels anymore (the PMDG J41 is just an example). This made me reconsider the usage of VC again, and I did the test by trying to fly PMDG's MD-11 in VC mode. Though VC mode gives a better "being there" feeling and provides a much better perception of the virtual world because the virtual head can turn freely and is not limited to fixed viewpoints and angles, I was back to 2D soon, and I tell you the main reasons why:To be able to get all instruments and switches into view so that I can perfectly read and manipulate them, I need to move freely within the VC cockpit. I.e. it isn't sufficient to perform yaw, pitch and maybe roll movements with the virtual "head", the entire virtual "person" needs to move laterally and longitudinally as well as up and down. I found that in contrast to what I see in reality, the perspective in the VC looks "skewed" and a bit unnatural, many times I cannot even properly identify switches on the overhead panels, everything looks "wrong" from the position from which I look at them. No matter if this is how FS displays the virtual "world", I for my part cannot handle an airliner this way.Take this situation for instance: The virtual pilot sits in the captain's seat and can perfectly watch the PFD and ND instruments by pitching and yawing the virtual "head". But when it comes to simple things like changing the altitude window on the glareshield panel, which is way to the right of the virtual pilot, I would need him to first move his virtual body to the right so that the glareshield is looked more from a frontal perspective.Another issue is that I need to have my hands free so I have the yoke in one and the throttle lever in the other. Using the mouse to manipulate switches and knobs on the screen is a tough enough taks because it requires me to allocate one hand, meaning it is no longer on the throttle or the yoke, but needing to depress a key on the keyboard and using the mouse to change the viewpoint of the virtual pilot simultanously is too much of a job (who holds the yoke then?).The only way to solve these problems I can think of is the usage of a device like TrackIR which allows movements in all directions, the hands are kept free, and I think it is fast enough to allow for a glimpse out of the left window followed by a fast movement to look straight at the glareshield panel (e.g. to click on the altitude knob) - where both actions are performed within one single second only!Having a 2D panel available allows me to arrange important parts of the instrumentation on one or more monitors so I can look at them using my real world eyes and head movements, which are fast enough for the requirement to let the sight wander around cockpit parts quickly.VCs are a different thing since I cannot use my real world head and eyes, I need a supporting device like TrackIR which simulates my movements in the virtual world. I made the experience that I need to spend additional time to get e.g. a specific display into view in a way I need it. This means I would need to kind of "fine tune" the position of the virtual pilot: Instead of simply looking at a 2D panel "glued onto the monitor", I find myself moving my head up/down/fore/aft/left/right just to get that instrument into view big enough and straight enough, so as if I were looking at it sitting directly in front of it. So, I guess even if using TrackIR or devices like that, a certain "artificial" feeling using VCs would last.That said, I can hardly think someone can be happy with e.g. an LDS 767 in VC mode if that person doesn't own TrackIR or a similar device.Personally, I'm not even a friend of "traditional" 2D panels as well since they try to resemble a 3D world, emphasizing the look of the panel itself and neglecting the "important" things like displays, switches and knobs. This way, you always have a centerpost on your monitor screen and sometimes even tiny and unreadable buttons on a small glareshield, and the main instruments are reduced in size so there's almost always a way to make them bigger (i.e. zoom in by using separate popup panels). This is not ideal for me, I could easily do without all that eye candy. I find solutions like Project Magenta and Sim Avionics almost ideal, the disadvantage is that they need to run on a different PC.As a conclusion, I think I'm going to have a hard time converting to VC only, but I'll get myself a TrackIR device and try my best. Looks like 2D is going to go away sooner or later, I cannot change this and only hope there will still be airplane models with both 2D and VC.Andreas

VC exclusively for me, I would prefer to use TrackIR but it's not amenable to my environment.

Hi,100% of my sim time is spent in the Level-d 767-300ER and I constantly use the VC without TrackIR. I do find myself using the 2d panel during my initial setup as well as during the shutdown/securing the aircraft phases of flight. I just find it easier/quicker than the VC.I think using the combined 2d/3d panels together gives me the best of both worlds.

VC with TR4. Using one monitor but would love to add one or two more. Thinking about getting a few of those Saitek Pro Instrument panel LCDs and leave my monitor for outside view only. Anyone have those units from Saitek and can comment on how it helps creates the virtual world we all want.?

Hi, IMC and everyone."How many of you fly in the VC without trackir?.."TrackIR is not needed to realize a good VC experience. Most real pilots would only use VC for their sim flying, because it makes them look in the proper direction / position for the controls. It also allows more flexibility when it comes to setting the Panel / Instrument size to get a closer to real spacing and size, which is very important to scanning. "If you do, would you be so kind as to let me know some tips and hints on how to do it better."Arrange your view to display only the important / needed instruments as default, set your forward / external view to about .6-.7, then set your inside view. In FSX you can Save these settings in your Save Flight, in FS9 you have to mod. the .FLT file."Also should I change the pan rate speed to make it faster?"Assign your controller's Z axis, Twist, to Pan View right / left functions, Menu>Options>Controlls>Assignments>Axis. Very quick, left / right return to center. Make sure you set the Null zone correctly, increase it typically, to not have it interfere with the other flight controls. See some of my "Avcomware" posts about these suggestions, or post here for more help.If you have your Twist presently assigned to Rudder change it, that is one assignment that is about as unrealistic as one can get, just assign the Auto rudder instead. TV

As much as we simmers love the VC and especially using TrackIR I can tell you almost every high time real world pilot find VC's and the TrackIR quite annoying. They can get used to it but they will hands down prefer a 2d panel representation. This is based on my experiences giving presentations to real world pilots (I am one myself) and demoing the equipment. ...and no, I am not demoing on a mini laptop with a folding joystick, I am demoing on a 25.5" widescreen sitting on top of PFC Cirrus II hardware with the latest TrackIR5. I can tell you for doing actual instrument training protocols that counts... iow paying for the instructor time you wouldn't want the distraction. Yes, it is highly entertaining and I find it more fun myself.To the OP's question, you can change pan rate but really save your money and get the TrackIR5.

I fly exclusively in the VC but occasionally I'm forced to go to the 2d panel as commercial aircraft, like the FeelThere/Wilco 737 PIC, don't like anyone using the VC and force you to go 2d to program/use the FMC, click on switches in the overhead, etc., etc. As soon as I begin taxiing, I'm back in the VC. Once it's on auto or the FMC has taken over, I use the spacebar+mouse combo to look around and also zoom in with the mouse to look at the instument panel or overhead panel closer. I also have the TR4 and occasionally use that and the MS Force Feedback Joystick. Best regards,Jim Young

Since FSX, I am VC primarily. Before that I was 2D only (!)I use the SPACE BAR to pan around some, and also the hat on my yoke. Don't underestimate the use of the space bar key (in conjunction with mouse) to pan around.

2DI fly looking foward, snap view to look out the left window, snap view to look out the 10 oclock window, snap view to look out the copilot's windscreen, snap to front, instrument scan.I don't fly a F-16 so I have to use snap view to look around the large window frames.Pilots fly with 2D and copilots sight see with the VC to look at the girls/boys in the back.Guys with TIR have no choice but VC.The MAAM aircraft 2D cockpits had great art work that made them look real. FSX removed 50% of the best of FS9 and replaced it with better ground out to 6 miles (but now popping in) and lower FPS.DaveNew System:Intel Core I7 920 Quadcore 2.66Ghz @ 3.6GhzAsus P6T DLX V2 X58 1366Coolit Domino ALC, BD Combo Plextor B310SA6GB (3x2GB) Corsair Dominator DDR3 1866C7GTHIS ATI 4890 1GB, Samsung 24", Saitek X-52 PROLogitech Z680 5.1 Speakers, G15 Keyboard, G5 MouseThermaltake Element S Case, Corsair 850TX PSUC: Intel 80GB SSD w/Vista Home 64D: WD 300GB Velocity Raptor w/FSX, F4AFE: WD 1TB Caviar Black w/DataOld System:Dell XPS 720 H2CIntel Quad Core Extreme QX6800 2.93 @ 3.73GHz4GB (2x2GB) Corsair Dominator EPP 8500C5D FSB 800MHz @ 1066MHz2x160GB WD SATA Raptors, Sound Blaster X-FiNvidia 2x8800GTX 768MB SLI, Dell 2407WFP PanelXP driver: 169.21, Vista driver: 169.25Logitech Z680 5.1 Speakers, G5 Mouse, Saitek X52C: WinXP Media Edition SP3 (SATA 0) w/ Internet/AV/Office/FS9/F4AFD: Vista SP2 (SATA 1) (Dual Boot) w/FSX3DMark06: 17,018/6992/7123/5667

VC only since FS9, but then again, I don't fly tubeliners, mostly helicopters and GA. I have track IR from FS9, but haven't used it in FSX yet.

I have a button on my yoke set to "mouse look"

That's what I do as well. Joystick with my left hand, mouse with my right hand. Works pretty well.

It seems from most of the replies that they are pretty much akin to what I do, which is, in smaller aircraft where I'm inclined to be VFR, Track-IR in a VC is a definite plus, and I would almost always use it in those circumstances. With larger aircraft I'm less inclined to want to glance about like a fighter pilot, so although I still prefer the VC in the big jets, I'll happily use the spacebar and mouse to pan around, as not running Track-IR with an airliner saves a little bit on RAM, leaving it free for the many other apps you tend to have going alongside an FS airliner.In a lot of the other flight sims I use - which are invariably glider sims - a VC and Track-IR is fairly essential. Just as when flying a real glider, in a sim version of it, you need to keep your eyes open and scan the sky a lot, as you are invariably looking out for clues as to where the lift is. In real life you are also watching out for other aircraft, which are often in very close proximity, often less than a couple of hundred yards, and this can be true in most glider sims too, which are very much geared to online competition flying, where the battle for the best spot in a thermal can lead to some very close encounters.One thing is for sure, there is no way I could have done the aerobatics routine in this video without Track-IR and a VC:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJnK6wgLjnEAl

I switched from 2D only to VC only a few weeks ago when I got a better computer and wide screen monitor. Haven't been tempted to go back. Things that used to be hard to see and fiddly are now big and easy, and there is a definite increased illusion of flying a whole airplane, not running a panel. Depending on how rthe MD-11 VC works out for me I might consider 2D because of the way they have it set up for ease of us and have a wide panel option.