are sticking their nose so far up the PMDG butt hole for what reason I dont know. Do you think you might get more pics/ information by sucking butt deserve a little more respect. Just my opinion. Mike Kendall

Funny to see your first two sentences and then your last, talking about respect....Erik-Jan

Funny to see your first two sentences and then your last, talking about respect....Erik-Jan

Aussie humor is extremely sarcastic

I agree, people who say PMDG should take their time are sticking their nose so far up the PMDG butt hole for what reason I dont know. Do you think you might get more pics/ information by sucking butt or do you want to part of the testing team? Anyway in all seriousness if they were to take their time and release 12 months from now would you still be happy to say that? What about 24 months from now? In my experience as an IT project manager there is a constant challenge between delivery, cost and time. Typically you don't deliver perfection because cost and time are major pressures that eventually win if things drag on too long I mean and the end of the day it's meant to be a profitable business which isn't possible without releasing something for more than what it cost to make. My only gripe is the lack of updates on progress. Ive said it before that I think it's wrong to state that the release is 'coming soon' and then not release it for a couple of years afterwards. People have been expecting this plane for a long time because we all believed that it was coming soon. It's about managing expectations and whilst PMDG exceed expectations with product I personally think they fail on the delivery of information pre release. It was obvious looking back that the 'coming soon' comment on the NGX webpage was misleading. And for those that are going to say rushing the software is a bad idea I agree 100%. This is not about rushing this is about managing expectations of passionate and loyal customers who deserve a little more respect. Just my opinion. Mike Kendall

Apart from the first bit which I think was made tongue in cheek and should not in my view have been said, I agree with most of what Mike has said.We know how long these things take and given the confidence in PMDG's work we will wait. Nevertheless some broad timelines and updates are appropriate.From an approximate "Mid year" there is little slippage so far, but I suspect everyone believes that even end of the year might be optimistic.We do invest quite a lot of time and money in our hobby so some feedback would be helpful.After all some of us, if we knew nothing was coming for 6 months or more, might go for an alternative, even as a stopgap, and plan to get 737NG next year.Martin Madden

This i KNOW is not in alignment with genral consensus.. BUT, i dont agree with the "pmdg can take aslong as they want" idea..If you were an engineer for a company like Apple or something, a delay of 2 years+ is simply not acceptable. We can assume the original release date of mid 2010 [approximate] so we are already months late of that..PMDG are a ltd company but i think its a question of efficiency and life commitments.. OK lots of the team do alot outside of FSX, but is that right?? **EDIT Some people i know are realy depending on this release

I think this is a strange comparison.If I want to have something that some organisation has to build for me, we make together a contract in which we tell what it will cost and when it is finished.If the organisation fails to deliver in in time, I have reasons to complain.In this case, I don't have a contract with PMDG, so if they say we're gonna make something new, I can buy it if I want.But If it takes to much time, in my opinion, I can go to another or don't buy it. (or just be dissapointed)It is strange in this case to say things like "it is onacceptable".Let it be clear, I too hoped it was finished in mid 2010, it is sad they didn't make it. But it wasn''t a deadline we agreed with PMDG.So, and that is the only thing I want to say, you can't compare PMDG who gives an expected releasedate with an organisation who sign a contract with a customer.Eric

Gents,PMDG do not have release dates or empty promises they simply let their products speak for themselves.They commit and they deliver. These guys are working hard for us, PMDG have my support, appreciation and enthusiasam.-Dan Parker

This is a shout-out to all ye glass-half-empty types.Today there is a 1.05% chance of it being released.Tomarrow is 1.06%.Next week, the 4th, is 1.13%.On October 27, 1.53%So the longer you wait, the more probable it is to be released. And day by day it gets exponentally more probable.

Apart from the first bit which I think was made tongue in cheek and should not in my view have been said, I agree with most of what Mike has said.We know how long these things take and given the confidence in PMDG's work we will wait. Nevertheless some broad timelines and updates are appropriate.From an approximate "Mid year" there is little slippage so far, but I suspect everyone believes that even end of the year might be optimistic.We do invest quite a lot of time and money in our hobby so some feedback would be helpful.After all some of us, if we knew nothing was coming for 6 months or more, might go for an alternative, even as a stopgap, and plan to get 737NG next year.Martin Madden

On re-reading the first part of what I said it didn't come across as funny as it was meant to so apologies for offense taken. Martin I hope PMDG weren't concerned about people finding stopgaps and that's why they stated 'coming soon' to try to keep them on the hook but it would explain why the 'coming soon' comment is now over two years old. I doubt there was a major issue which caused such a large delay so my impression is a tactile ploy to prevent customers going elsewhere and competitors pushing hard to produce an alternative high fidelity simulator. Cmon PMDG were more loyal than that and I don't think there is an alternative, you are the pinnacle of the hobby software wise......now who's sucking butt lol

Apart from the first bit which I think was made tongue in cheek and should not in my view have been said, I agree with most of what Mike has said.We know how long these things take and given the confidence in PMDG's work we will wait. Nevertheless some broad timelines and updates are appropriate.From an approximate "Mid year" there is little slippage so far, but I suspect everyone believes that even end of the year might be optimistic.We do invest quite a lot of time and money in our hobby so some feedback would be helpful.After all some of us, if we knew nothing was coming for 6 months or more, might go for an alternative, even as a stopgap, and plan to get 737NG next year.Martin Madden

On re-reading the first part of what I said it didn't come across as funny as it was meant to so apologies for offense taken. Martin I hope PMDG weren't concerned about people finding stopgaps and that's why they stated 'coming soon' to try to keep them on the hook but it would explain why the 'coming soon' comment is now over two years old. I doubt there was a major issue which caused such a large delay so my impression is a tactile ploy to prevent customers going elsewhere and competitors pushing hard to produce an alternative high fidelity simulator. Cmon PMDG were more loyal than that and I don't think there is an alternative, you are the pinnacle of the hobby software wise......now who's sucking butt lol

This is a shout-out to all ye glass-half-empty types.Today there is a 1.05% chance of it being released.Tomarrow is 1.06%.Next week, the 4th, is 1.13%.On October 27, 1.53%So the longer you wait, the more probable it is to be released. And day by day it gets exponentally more probable.

Ahhh at last, now I don't have to worry anymore...

I think this is a strange comparison.If I want to have something that some organisation has to build for me, we make together a contract in which we tell what it will cost and when it is finished.If the organisation fails to deliver in in time, I have reasons to complain.In this case, I don't have a contract with PMDG, so if they say we're gonna make something new, I can buy it if I want.But If it takes to much time, in my opinion, I can go to another or don't buy it. (or just be dissapointed)It is strange in this case to say things like "it is onacceptable".Let it be clear, I too hoped it was finished in mid 2010, it is sad they didn't make it. But it wasn''t a deadline we agreed with PMDG.So, and that is the only thing I want to say, you can't compare PMDG who gives an expected releasedate with an organisation who sign a contract with a customer.Eric

I understand your point, you are correct but I don't think anyone is suggesting they breached contract, and no one is saying they are taking them to court over it. Although I'm pretty sure a decent lawyer could have them found in breach of trade practices act of Australia for false and misleading advertising, joking;) It's not a question of breach of law, more so a breach of faith or bad PR. These couple of years have seen a lot of topics covered about the NGX and no matter your opinion it's getting harder for people to think of new things to talk about. It's either been covered or we are not being provided with the info from PMDG. Why am I so addicted to this forum ahhhhhhhMkendall

*Yawn*Some folks get far too serious over this release updates thing. The self acclaimed "passionate" customers need to chill out. Calling the more patient users "brown nosers" is just... well, take your aggression somewhere else, please. The sense of entitlement that some forum users exhibit is a bit comical. The 737NGX is not some kind of B2B venture, where regular updates might be important to customers businesses. You can be sure, that everyone outside of PMDG who needs to know, has a better insight into the development schedule than we customers have. Also, there is a huge difference between PMDG and let's say Aerosoft's in-house developers. Aerosoft try to stick as close to the native FSX platform as possible, while PMDG do the exact opposite. Obviously this is hard to do and involves a lot of work, which causes delay after delay, but this is the only way to get the fidelity that we are all used to from PMDG. I'd rather have everyone at PMDG busy with writing lines of code, painting textures, recordings sounds etc., than posting updates over every screw and breadcrumb, especially since the release slipped. Sure, I enjoy the updates as much as everyone else. But to actually demand updates is a bit too much. It's just like a little boy, sitting in the back of the car and asking mom "Mom! Are we there yet?".

I just hope its being released before MS Flight;-)Martijn

One thing you all fail to mention or even realizw is the comments that ryan has been sYing about alpha and beta. He has been constantly saying that what other companies consider beta they consider alpha. For all we know, it could be closer to release than we tbink.

With this much banter and irritation about a vague release schedule, I could only imagine what this place would look like if they'd attempted to provide a hard release date.While it is disappointing to have to wait ever longer for something so awesome, things happen and that is why they won't use hard dates. I can't blame them, especially when we can all see what flak even vague dates can rouse. I would rather them take the time and run the bugs out now, than have 13 service packs.As far as the contract comments go, I agree. We have no business making demands. Furthermore, even with contracts you have to be careful how far you push. When my father was having his house built, the developer was taking longer than they had estimated. He had a contract drafted setting a firm deadline (with a monetary penalty), which they signed. In the end, he got his house by the deadline, but it was a rush job and certain elements were left out or done poorly (to the degree that a window, which had been framed in the woodwork, was drywalled and sided over in all of the rush).Be careful how far you push, and how you conduct yourself. Imagine being on their end and seeing this stuff. Would you want to work harder for people who gripe and rant? Even more so, if someone had a problem with your program and went to seek support, would you work nearly as hard if the person inquiring was accusatory or inflammatory? While it is true, a company should support its product, it is also true that we are all human, and you will note that people who address issues politely get the best support. Why? Because money only motivates humans so far - the rest is personal satisfaction. Why would I try harder for someone who paid the same amount of money? Simple, they're nicer to me. Even the most patient people are still driven by their subconscious motivations. I'm not saying our favorite developer will not help someone because of their demeanor, rather, I'm pointing out that, in general, a little grace goes a long way.So does patience...Kyle

...it does seem a bit odd that this forum mirrors that of NLS A380 and DCS Warthog productions as regards to delayed release and lack of info, moans etc...is there some significant up-coming date that has some sort of benefit regarding releases? :(

Grow up guys! You will see an announcement when it is ready. Till then go get something done and let the team finish their work peacefully.