Some of the reasons why I think no free addons will be available to us are...This time the devs. been in bed with MS :( free addons means losing $ for both of them, remember they are targeting moms and dads now so if dad see a decent addons for free made by some of the best dev. (like some on avsim) why will they invest $25.00, $30.00 + in the store ....free addons will be from the approved devs. as a bonus like some are already doing to implement what we did buy from them.Also keep in mind that Flight will be online (virtual) and I don't think MS will let you upload something for free who may conflict with the online play (bugs), and again lost of $.Nobody know exactly what will happen but take a step back and (again) ask yourself..."What will make sense for MS and the devs. to do $ wise, letting us been able to upload free addons from good devs.(like some on Avsim) into Flight or us having to buy theirs in the store?" Now on another subject why do you think nobody from Aces or MS is talking to us this time or why are they not at least answering our legitimate questions about Flight...because we were too hard on them last time about FSX :( ,....GIVE ME A BREAK.....some of the devs. are asking us what we would like to see in Flight so what does that tells you....

The topic of Flight being online/virtual has even been covered by MS. You do not need internet to use Flight...it should install right to your computer.Now, lets look at the SDK topic realistically. Microsoft likely hired some people to work on the SDK. 3rd parties = add-on developers. They are probably communicating with developers to see what kinds of things are needed to develop add-ons in the most efficient way, or what the best things are that should be included in the SDK. The FSX SDK was a big step forward, and I'm sure they wont' take a step back. They are still trying to please the hardcore simmers.Back when Phil was around, people were really hard on Microsoft with FSX. Microsoft doesn't want the same thing happening again, so this time, they are choosing to keep information inside. Besides, they don't want X-Plane knowing what they are up to. The teasers we get every so often are quite enough information. (screenshots and videos can show a lot)

A fair bit is known but little is openly discussed as NDA agreements are iron clad and enforced, there is a department to oversee any transgressions, Team Members are not even allowed to identify themselves as such, i indulged myself in venturing a (rare) opinion, not in speculation.The SDK is going to be critical in allowing 3PD's to populate the Flight Live store and doubtless will be a work of art, different categories of product will exist as is the case now with Windows Live, ( Cheap or pricy , they get 30% ) to allow this system to work only products distributed through MS could be used in a locked game, it would make no economic sense to have any freeware or payware production installable from whatever source desired into the new game, as the conclusion is then that MS must package the addon, and as they are not a charity there will be no more freeware.As a long time contributor to freeware i would like to hear differently , as a Volunteer at Avsim it means a shift in focus , in any case for the moment its clear that requests for information through official channels are not being replied too and prognosticators are having a field day, some reasonable compromise needs to be found to end speculation with a few well chosen facts..

What gets under my skin is when people start to FORCE there speculation onto others.

I can understand how this can become old, reading the same point repeated over and over.On the point about 3rd party development being restricted to a "select few 3rd party developers" I think that only applies to the testing phase of the SDK, at least that's how it reads to me. I can't Imagine Microsoft locking development by freeware parties. A lot of games now (mostly open world) are able to be modded, I am thinking of the GTA series, Just Cause, Mafia etc. It helps bolster the community and ongoing support and interest for a title.

Members of the team were actively blogging and assisting developers with conceptual explanations of the games rendering process , to this day those posts form a global view of what didn’t make it into the SDK, a view of how it works on a conceptual level.

:( I guess we'll have to wait to see what changes they've made to support. If there is going to be blogging and such it's unlikely to be before RTM. There's just way to much priority stuff to do right now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I remember this was the case for FSX too.

The SDK is going to be critical in allowing 3PD's to populate the Flight Live store and doubtless will be a work of art, different categories of product will exist as is the case now with Windows Live, ( Cheap or pricy , they get 30% ) to allow this system to work only products distributed through MS could be used in a locked game, it would make no economic sense to have any freeware or payware production installable from whatever source desired into the new game, as the conclusion is then that MS must package the addon, and as they are not a charity there will be no more freeware.

+1 Given the investment Microsoft is making with Flight it makes no sense for Microsoft to allow addons except via the Flight Store. Think of what Apple does with the iPhone, you can only install apps via the AppStore and music/movies via iTunes, unless you 'jailbreak' your phone. Microsoft will want to control the Flight market completely, that is the best commercial option for Microsoft and its shareholders.I would imagine that Flight will only install/execute addons that have been digitally signed by Microsoft (via the Store), which is good for preventing piracy I guess.IMHO 90% of Flight's users will be 'casual gamers' who couldn't care less about tweaking Flight with the types of freeware found on AVSIM. They will be happy with whatever is available on the Flight Store.I do think the Flight Store will contain high quality AAA titles from the likes of PMDG, REX, ORBX and so on, it's just that the freeware component of Flight Simulators long history will be missing.

Your right Dan and thanks , a little patience is something i could use as well i suppose , i get frustrated reading through the posts .

...to allow this system to work only products distributed through MS could be used in a locked game, it would make no economic sense to have any freeware or payware production installable from whatever source desired into the new game, as the conclusion is then that MS must package the addon, and as they are not a charity there will be no more freeware.

Yeah it's entirely possible...But my assumptions lead me to different opinions....for what it's worth :smile:I really hope Flight puts some effort into finalizing and communicating their store plans as soon as possible.

I do think the Flight Store will contain high quality AAA titles from the likes of PMDG, REX, ORBX and so on.

For me I have to think it would be hard to distribute PMDG in the flight store.But it’s for them to cross that bridge….and I have no idea what that’ll entail.

Lets just wait and see what Flight will bring...it's a little different than the previous versions of FS, so who knows what will happen. Let's just not dig too far into it until we have more information. We could sit here and speculate about what bad things could happen to Flight, or we can wait and see what will actually happen.

I am fairly certain that MS does not want to lose the goodwill it has built up with the flightsim community over the years. Yes, FSX did not live up to the community's expectations in some/many respects, but this does not mean that MS will now create a game that breaks with tradition altogether.This means that the SDK will be available to everyone. The select 3rd party developers are evaluating the SDK tools on behalf of everyone who will end up using it. This will surely include freeware developers, just as it always has.I find it highly unlikely that the "casual simmer", who will use the game for all of 10 days -- before she moves on to the next new game -- is going to buy anything from any add-on developer, be it from MS or from any other site. MS knows how many games it has sold over the years and most of these games were sold to us, the people who invested some time to learn to fly the more complicated aircraft and then added more realism by buying from 3rd party developers.It would be rather foolish to think that we could be replaced by casual simmers in the numbers that would be beneficial to the bottom line. Not to say that someone at MS does not think so, but it would be foolish nevertheless, imho.Although we can speculate wildly about every aspect of Flight, many people have been around long enough to know how MS operates and how each new release was different from the previous one. I would think that the smart money is on keeping the flightsim community happy and add features to attract some new people to the hobby. This is not going to be accomplished if this and every other flightsim forum is full of negative posts after Flight is released.I am not a fan of Microsoft, (I was when it was David to IBM), but I somehow think that Flight Simulator has been a special product to the company. It could have been killed, but it was not. I can't help but think that Flight will try to remedy the shortcomings of FSX and keep the franchise going.

I am fairly certain that MS does not want to lose the goodwill it has built up with the flightsim community over the years. Yes, FSX did not live up to the community's expectations in some/many respects, but this does not mean that MS will now create a game that breaks with tradition altogether.This means that the SDK will be available to everyone. The select 3rd party developers are evaluating the SDK tools on behalf of everyone who will end up using it. This will surely include freeware developers, just as it always has.I find it highly unlikely that the "casual simmer", who will use the game for all of 10 days -- before she moves on to the next new game -- is going to buy anything from any add-on developer, be it from MS or from any other site. MS knows how many games it has sold over the years and most of these games were sold to us, the people who invested some time to learn to fly the more complicated aircraft and then added more realism by buying from 3rd party developers.It would be rather foolish to think that we could be replaced by casual simmers in the numbers that would be beneficial to the bottom line. Not to say that someone at MS does not think so, but it would be foolish nevertheless, imho.Although we can speculate wildly about every aspect of Flight, many people have been around long enough to know how MS operates and how each new release was different from the previous one. I would think that the smart money is on keeping the flightsim community happy and add features to attract some new people to the hobby. This is not going to be accomplished if this and every other flightsim forum is full of negative posts after Flight is released.I am not a fan of Microsoft, (I was when it was David to IBM), but I somehow think that Flight Simulator has been a special product to the company. It could have been killed, but it was not. I can't help but think that Flight will try to remedy the shortcomings of FSX and keep the franchise going.

+1000000I couldn't have said it better myself. There are some of us that know what to expect with each next FS version, others expect too much or just don't think the product will be any good.

A fair bit is known but little is openly discussed as NDA agreements are iron clad and enforced, there is a department to oversee any transgressions, Team Members are not even allowed to identify themselves as such, i indulged myself in venturing a (rare) opinion, not in speculation.The SDK is going to be critical in allowing 3PD's to populate the Flight Live store and doubtless will be a work of art, different categories of product will exist as is the case now with Windows Live, ( Cheap or pricy , they get 30% ) to allow this system to work only products distributed through MS could be used in a locked game, it would make no economic sense to have any freeware or payware production installable from whatever source desired into the new game, as the conclusion is then that MS must package the addon, and as they are not a charity there will be no more freeware.As a long time contributor to freeware i would like to hear differently , as a Volunteer at Avsim it means a shift in focus , in any case for the moment its clear that requests for information through official channels are not being replied too and prognosticators are having a field day, some reasonable compromise needs to be found to end speculation with a few well chosen facts..

Nop! with today's technology nothing is iron clad (think about wikileaks) and to be able to enforced any NDA (department or not overseeing any transgressions) you have to first find where the leak or leaks came from, I don't think that if somebody was told something about Flight from one who is under a NDA will turn around and tell on the leaker....that would be stupid and they would have nothing to gain by doing so.

I am fairly certain that MS does not want to lose the goodwill it has built up with the flightsim community over the years. Yes, FSX did not live up to the community's expectations in some/many respects, but this does not mean that MS will now create a game that breaks with tradition altogether.This means that the SDK will be available to everyone. The select 3rd party developers are evaluating the SDK tools on behalf of everyone who will end up using it. This will surely include freeware developers, just as it always has.I find it highly unlikely that the "casual simmer", who will use the game for all of 10 days -- before she moves on to the next new game -- is going to buy anything from any add-on developer, be it from MS or from any other site. MS knows how many games it has sold over the years and most of these games were sold to us, the people who invested some time to learn to fly the more complicated aircraft and then added more realism by buying from 3rd party developers.It would be rather foolish to think that we could be replaced by casual simmers in the numbers that would be beneficial to the bottom line. Not to say that someone at MS does not think so, but it would be foolish nevertheless, imho.Although we can speculate wildly about every aspect of Flight, many people have been around long enough to know how MS operates and how each new release was different from the previous one. I would think that the smart money is on keeping the flightsim community happy and add features to attract some new people to the hobby. This is not going to be accomplished if this and every other flightsim forum is full of negative posts after Flight is released.I am not a fan of Microsoft, (I was when it was David to IBM), but I somehow think that Flight Simulator has been a special product to the company. It could have been killed, but it was not. I can't help but think that Flight will try to remedy the shortcomings of FSX and keep the franchise going.

That´s it! Nothing more to add. MS would be definitely, as he said, very foolish if the don´t give 3D party developers a SDK. it would be the sentence of death for FS11.

Honestly, some people, (not necessarily anyone in this thread) sit here and complain...and complain...and complain about what Flight looks like while it's in...EARLY DEVELOPMENT.

This is one point that I can not agree with other people on this forum. I find it extremely hard to believe that Flight is in early development.Consider the facts:1)MS used to produce a new version of FS every two years. 2)We know many of the ACES were rehired about two years ago.3)Job openings by MS for a "flying game" were posted about two years ago.3)It has been nearly 8 months since Flight was announced.As mentioned on this thread, MS has been very hush about Flight. They are quiet so that they may not give us any expectation beyond what they may deliver. Logic tells me that what little they do show us, is perhaps what they are confident in keeping in the sim. So I say what you see is close to final product and they are not still in early development.

+1 Given the investment Microsoft is making with Flight it makes no sense for Microsoft to allow addons except via the Flight Store. Think of what Apple does with the iPhone, you can only install apps via the AppStore and music/movies via iTunes, unless you 'jailbreak' your phone. Microsoft will want to control the Flight market completely, that is the best commercial option for Microsoft and its shareholders.I would imagine that Flight will only install/execute addons that have been digitally signed by Microsoft (via the Store), which is good for preventing piracy I guess.IMHO 90% of Flight's users will be 'casual gamers' who couldn't care less about tweaking Flight with the types of freeware found on AVSIM. They will be happy with whatever is available on the Flight Store.I do think the Flight Store will contain high quality AAA titles from the likes of PMDG, REX, ORBX and so on, it's just that the freeware component of Flight Simulators long history will be missing.

Using your analogy though, Apple allows any developer to put their products in the app store and there are thousands of free apps. We'll have to wait and see.

We'll have to wait and see.

It will be kind of funny after all this talk if we end up still being able to buy our "Flight" addons from the developers or online FS stores like we have been for all the last versions of FS.