It's not a big deal but it's a good excuse.So, will the NGX have this HUD in 2d/no panel also? Or just in VC?

It will be a full in the VC integraded HUD. They made a video of this feature but I don´t know where you can find it. Just search through the PMDG forum.

I decided to risk the cost of the upgrade just to see for myself...The person saying it doesn't matter if the HUD only works right in 'full screen'must not have actually used it, since in that mode you can't see any thing elsein the cockpit, what if you want to tweak the auto throttle, or whatever... Iagree with others, its just a gimic and certainly will not work with my way offlying.I did get the weather radar working, but again, its never been something I wasall that thrilled about. I can confirm that it does work however, two things arerequired, you have to err turn it on :), and more important, your MFD must be setgreater than 10 mi scale, put it on 20 or 40. Like most of Wilco's work however, itseem's flakey, I did a flight from KSEA to KORD at FL370 and most the way I saw nothingon the display, it wasn't until deciding into the Chicago area that it was suddenlyshowing some cloud formations. I assume this is due to no 'tilt' control??What makes me mad about this upgrade is the small flaky details that have always lurkedin Wilco Airbus are still there, or even worse than before. For instance, I did an ILSapproach into KORD runway 14L, but even after supposedly capturing the LOC it seemed todo NOTHING to follow it as it drifted off to the right, secondly, it showed the GS diamond,but as I approached the runway the stupid thing never descended. I ultimately had to killthe AP completely and manually land it.Yes, it does seem like the SID/STAR data is better, but here's a classic "Wilcoism", ifyou start the plane up in the sim, load into the airport, but don't use the flight simflight planner... right? I was going to make my flight totally from scratch in the FMS,so the first thing I did was load the string "KSEA/KORD" in the appropriate spot....Well, I immediately got the 'circular cursor'.. oh oh I though, yup, it crashed the wholesim... obviously a NULL pointer somewhere... I mean COME ON, ROFL. Clearly the personjoking about them not doing any testing is close to the truth.I wish I were able to take the Aerosoft Airbus, add in these avionics, and fix the bugs.Its not that the overall product is so bad, if someone was just responsive to customerreports and then did Service Packs.Just look at iFLY if you want to learn how to treat your customers Wilco, its not sohard. And creating good will is certainly more fun for everyone than what you do now!!Sheesh....

That person is me and you do not use the HUD with A/T.You also do not modify anything on the MIP when using the HUD.All info is presented before your eyes on that tiny screen.The HUD is meant to be used when flying manually and it isalso meant to present ALL info for a safe manual flighton one tiny screen right before your eyes so you canfly an approach to minimums without ever having to avert your eyeswhich may cause you to miss the runway and having to go around.That is why it is a full screen, as you simply do not nééd anything else,and if you do, you are not using the HUD properly andhave no right to complain about it.ALL of you guys that are shouting reasons for it being a gimmick just do not know what the darned thing doesor is supposed to be doing and thus are assuming a lot of things, amongst othersthat the way it is is the wrong way to be forced to use it,while infact it is the closest to reality.There, I'm done.sheesh ....

It's the wiring, stupid.

Am not shouting, so you don't need to either :( OK, I half guessed you/someone would say that about the manual flying.So, I have not used it properly, I'll have to try that at some point.As I said, its not the main thing I cared about in this upgrade. Iwanted an Airbus with SID/STAR and terminal procedures that work aswell as PMDG or now iFLY. It seems to have taken a step in thatdirection, I need to do some more comparisons. But what I'm complaining about is the robustness, the crash to desktop I got, and ILS failure. These are what matter to me, and I'mtrying to remain calm, and just ask that Wilco fix the bugs their customers find... nothing unreasonable in that, eh?

................ But what I'm complaining about is the robustness, the crash to desktop I got, and ILS failure. These are what matter to me, and I'mtrying to remain calm, and just ask that Wilco fix the bugs their customers find... nothing unreasonable in that, eh?

They have your money, so they should deliver, plain and simple.I'm still on the fence about getting this upgrade, and would gladly put up with some of the limitations of the product if I knew there was a valid support forum to get some customer service. Seems like this thread at AVSIM is as close as it gets to support.....jfv, did you upgrade from the "standard" version of Volume 1? I never did the initial upgrade that seems to be rolled into this latest upgrade, so am not sure what the incremental benefits would be for me. I think someone else asked this question earlier in this thread, it's hard to see what people are upgrading from, I guess....Thanks, Bruce.

That person is me and you do not use the HUD with A/T.You also do not modify anything on the MIP when using the HUD.All info is presented before your eyes on that tiny screen.The HUD is meant to be used when flying manually and it isalso meant to present ALL info for a safe manual flighton one tiny screen right before your eyes so you canfly an approach to minimums without ever having to avert your eyeswhich may cause you to miss the runway and having to go around.That is why it is a full screen, as you simply do not nééd anything else,and if you do, you are not using the HUD properly andhave no right to complain about it.ALL of you guys that are shouting reasons for it being a gimmick just do not know what the darned thing doesor is supposed to be doing and thus are assuming a lot of things, amongst othersthat the way it is is the wrong way to be forced to use it,while infact it is the closest to reality.There, I'm done.sheesh ....

You said earlier people should think before they type.Maybe you should take your own advice?Because raging at everyone in CAPITOL letters while underlining everything and pretending you're a certified Boeing/Airbus engineer that designed HUDS is...dumb.HUDS were only designed to fly manually? Really?No...aircraft NEVER use a HUD when they're flying full IFR on autopilot. Right?The HUD is designed for a number of different things, not just flying the plane manually.If the HUD was the ONLY thing the pilot was meant to see when he's using it, then we wouldn't see this:But instead this:

You just proved his point. Your picture not only shows the pic flying manually, but also completely focused on the HUD and not the main instrument panel.The autopilot has no need for a hud so there's no need to use it while otto has the con.And it would be my guess that the fullscreen is meant to simulate the eye focus on the hud. Kind of how the ifr shades block the outside view. Its meant as an enhancement.

Lol I didn't prove his point.I made one, that the HUD is used along with everything else in the cockpit.Look, this whole argument is over the fact that the full screen Wilco HUD is "realistic" or not.Imo it's a stupid argument and it would be nice if the HUD was in the VC. It's not, I understand that. It's only in 2D/fullscreen because Wilco doesn't have the skills necessary to model it in the VC.But some of you have a stick shoved so far you have to constantly argue one tiny faucet for the sake of realism just to justify Wilco's lack of features.Again I don't know why you guys continually defend this crappy product and constantly attack the consumer for wanting something better then this steaming pile that is the Evolution Upgrade.

Why do you have to bring Ariane into this thread about Wilco?I guess you just want to start a flame war here too. JeffG

Good point JeffG. I really had nothing to offer here and should have just butt out. I couldn't resist commenting on all the ranting about Wilco which is reminiscent of Ariane. I don't want to start a flame war at all. I will stay out of it.Take care.

Lol I didn't prove his point.I made one, that the HUD is used along with everything else in the cockpit.Look, this whole argument is over the fact that the full screen Wilco HUD is "realistic" or not.Imo it's a stupid argument and it would be nice if the HUD was in the VC. It's not, I understand that. It's only in 2D/fullscreen because Wilco doesn't have the skills necessary to model it in the VC.But some of you have a stick shoved so far you have to constantly argue one tiny faucet for the sake of realism just to justify Wilco's lack of features.Again I don't know why you guys continually defend this crappy product and constantly attack the consumer for wanting something better then this steaming pile that is the Evolution Upgrade.

I understand your point and agree as to it's use in the VC. For those that prefer flying VC only (I'm one of them), the implementation of the HUD in this product is not realistic and pretty much useless to me. Same can be said about Feelthere's E-JETS which I think is more of an issue, since they had the opportunity to build the VC to support the HUD and didn't. HUD's weren't used when the Airbus model's were developed. So the lack of one in this upgrade is a little more understandable, knowing the scope was gauges/ systems only. There are many though that will only fly with 2D panels, so for them, the inclusion of the HUD is very useful.

I only chimed in about the comment that the hud was a gimmick. I never defended wilco or its product. There's a vast difference between advocating buyer awareness and being a wilco fan boi.And it would seem there's enough sticks up a lot of peoples bums in this thread to go around.

Am not shouting, so you don't need to either :( OK, I half guessed you/someone would say that about the manual flying.So, I have not used it properly, I'll have to try that at some point.As I said, its not the main thing I cared about in this upgrade. Iwanted an Airbus with SID/STAR and terminal procedures that work aswell as PMDG or now iFLY. It seems to have taken a step in thatdirection, I need to do some more comparisons. But what I'm complaining about is the robustness, the crash to desktop I got, and ILS failure. These are what matter to me, and I'mtrying to remain calm, and just ask that Wilco fix the bugs their customers find... nothing unreasonable in that, eh?

Seems some of us do not like to be contradicted here. Shame, I thought fora were meant to EXCHANGE opinions.I still believe the HUD is a gimmick but I'm glad some simmers find it useful. It does work fine and does look pretty, I still regret not to have access to any other switch that's not programmed on my stick but that's just me and it must indeed be the wiring.To catch the ILS, it's true you need be within restrictive parameters, it works better than before, however. I have not experienced any CTD so far due to this specific software that I could identify.I just wish Wilco could fix the managed descent and other minor glitches and I'd be happy.

You said earlier people should think before they type.Maybe you should take your own advice?

Maybe I should, but I cannot fathom why the concept of the HUD is lost on you guys.Or why you want to make me look bad and in doing so only make yourself look bad.Which is a pity.

Because raging at everyone in CAPITOL letters while underlining everything and pretending you're a certified Boeing/Airbus engineer that designed HUDS is...dumb.

I am underlining the places where I feel emphasis is needed.You have every right to skip my post if you do not want to read it.I would not mind at all.Really.I would however like to ask you why you say I am pretending to bea certified Airbus or Boeing engineer, as I am most definately not doing that.You may quote me to clarify, as I have never made that statement.So I would appreciate it if you could let that drop as it is not relevant,it is you putting words in my mouth which were not there and never have been there to begin with.It has thus nothing to do with me being dumb as I am not pretending - I mean proving- anything otherthen that the concept of the HUD as well as civil discussion is clearly lost on -amongst others- you.

HUDS were only designed to fly manually? Really?

Really.They were designed as an aid with handflying, giving the pilotan unobstructed view outside without the need to periodicallyput his head inside the cockpit to verify the instruments.More to the point : if the in this case 737 is CAT IIIb certified it is only certified so flown manually.Really.Do some research, as I said you might be surprised.The info's right there.

No...aircraft NEVER use a HUD when they're flying full IFR on autopilot. Right?

Why do you think it can fold up into the ceiling?And where have I said you can't use it when flying on AP?You can certainly usue it when the AP is on, but it is somewhat redundant.I have said that the primary use of the HUD is when manually flying the aircraft.Your own image shows it, for crying out loud.

The HUD is designed for a number of different things, not just flying the plane manually.If the HUD was the ONLY thing the pilot was meant to see when he's using it, then we wouldn't see this:

I like the image of the PNF who should handle that request and leave the PF to his duty : flying the plane .It has zero bearing on this discussion, however.If the pilot is flying his plane assisted by the HUD it is the only thinghe will use as it is all he will need and even will want to useas it is that easy when used.All other things will be taken care of by the pilot not flying.No computerdesktopexpert will change that.Just why do you think that thing is smack in the middle of his vision?And just why do you think Alaska Airlines went to find out if a HUD was useful?To have the AP fly the plane?Real pilots love to fly themselves, they're no PC pilots pushing buttons pretending,they really fly, and the HUD makes it a lot more precise without them ever having to take the eyes ofthe outside world they are travelling through.And that is the biggest advantage of the HUD in commercial aircraft.The PF's eyes are constantly outside but all info he needs is readily available.Really.cheersJP.

JP,You have been so cool throughout this thread! Some people still won't get it no matter what is said, so at that point let them be in their own little worlds and move on!!