If we download this link (from the OP's post), how do we get the manual later- will it be downloadable at no additional cost from the F1 (or developer's) site?Thanks, Bruce.

First, Flight1 is the developer of this plane.Second, there should be a Licensed Members support forum once the plane is officially released. I would anticipate that the finished manual would be made available for those that took advantage of the early purchase link. If it wasn't pinned as a sticky, then a "few" postings would probably get the job done! :( I'll probably pick this up, as I have a few spare $$$ sitting in the Paypal account. :(

First, Flight1 is the developer of this plane.Second, there should be a Licensed Members support forum once the plane is officially released. I would anticipate that the finished manual would be made available for those that took advantage of the early purchase link. If it wasn't pinned as a sticky, then a "few" postings would probably get the job done! :( I'll probably pick this up, as I have a few spare $$$ sitting in the Paypal account. :(

The Licensed members support forum is running already.....

Looks nice, but a bit too rich for my blood.

I'd have to agree with that to be honest. I daresay it is nice (can't confirm that because I'm completely unable to purchase it for some bizarre reason). I know that you generally get what you pay for, but look at it this way: It's considerably more expensive than the PMDG J-41, more expensive than either the A2A Spitfire or Piper Cub (and that includes with Accusim) almost as expensive as the PMDG 747-400, not far off the price of the A2A Stratocruiser or B-17G (also with Accusim), and as someone noted, way more than Aerosoft's DA-20-100 Katana 4X and nearly as expensive as the iFly NG (which features the entire Boeing NG range apart from the 900ER). For a Cessna single? Even with a fancy gauge that's kind of hard to justify when you look at these comparisons.I'm a big fan of Flight 1, always have been, but that price is really off the mark.Al

I'd have to agree with that to be honest. I daresay it is nice (can't confirm that because I'm completely unable to purchase it for some bizarre reason). I know that you generally get what you pay for, but look at it this way: It's considerably more expensive than the PMDG J-41, more expensive than either the A2A Spitfire or Piper Cub (and that includes with Accusim) almost as expensive as the PMDG 747-400, not far off the price of the A2A Stratocruiser or B-17G (also with Accusim), and as someone noted, way more than Aerosoft's DA-20-100 Katana 4X and nearly as expensive as the iFly NG (which features the entire Boeing NG range apart from the 900ER). For a Cessna single? Even with a fancy gauge that's kind of hard to justify when you look at these comparisons.I'm a big fan of Flight 1, always have been, but that price is really off the mark.Al

So when has it became policy that Avsim Staff determines that a price point is really off the mark? Comparing the T182T with a J-41, a stratocruiser, cub, etc, is like comparing a banana to a stove bolt. The G1000 alone in this aircraft is the most advanced G1000 for entertainment there is bar none. Some add-on G1000's cost exactly the same amount as this entire aircraft package and do less. And there is an awful, awful lot going on it that simulation alone that is beyond any of your aforementioned products (with no disrespect to any of them) If you are not able to appreciate what it is and what it can do, it is a great disservice for you to paint a picture that it isn't worth it just because it isn't something you would typically fly. Its value is appropriate for a person that can appreciate the complexity that this aircraft offers and although you may not think it is as complex as a 737, it can do some things that even a 737 cannot do. The fact that you call it a "fancy gauge" tells me that this is not an aircraft for you, but why do you assume it isn't a value to someone else? You are entitled to your opinion, but just like us that have the "Commercial" moniker placed on us, you have the Avsim Staff Moniker and I do not appreciate a public statement with an Avsim moniker that says anybodies product is good, bad, indifferent or too high priced. You should remain neutral. That is for the customer to decide and they simply cannot lose a dime because of our refund policy which is #1 in the industry.Jim Rhoads

So when has it became policy that Avsim Staff determines that a price point is really off the mark? Comparing the T182T with a J-41, a stratocruiser, cub, etc, is like comparing a banana to a stove bolt. The G1000 alone in this aircraft is the most advanced G1000 for entertainment there is bar none. Some add-on G1000's cost exactly the same amount as this entire aircraft package and do less. And there is an awful, awful lot going on it that simulation alone that is beyond any of your aforementioned products (with no disrespect to any of them) If you are not able to appreciate what it is and what it can do, it is a great disservice for you to paint a picture that it isn't worth it just because it isn't something you would typically fly. Its value is appropriate for a person that can appreciate the complexity that this aircraft offers and although you may not think it is as complex as a 737, it can do some things that even a 737 cannot do. The fact that you call it a "fancy gauge" tells me that this is not an aircraft for you, but why do you assume it isn't a value to someone else? You are entitled to your opinion, but just like us that have the "Commercial" moniker placed on us, you have the Avsim Staff Moniker and I do not appreciate a public statement with an Avsim moniker that says anybodies product is good, bad, indifferent or too high priced. You should remain neutral. That is for the customer to decide and they simply cannot lose a dime because of our refund policy which is #1 in the industry.Jim Rhoads

That's silly Jim, so you're saying if an Avsim Staff Reviewer has negative remarks about a product (price being one of them) then they shouldn't be allowed to share that opinion? Tom, himself has stated his extreme displeasure of a product, is he not allowed to tell the community about his negative experience? That is what this community is all about.

Please don't insult the intelligence of your (potential) customers by going sticking to your "apples and oranges" defense, a lot of us will understand what he's on about and tend to agree with him. I think you'll find that the customers who buy and keep this aircraft will be limited to those craving a G1000 loaded Cessna single, and not that many else. The broad appeal of those competitors is rooted in a what I think is a general consensus on what might be called "the immersion factor" or whatever. It's hard to explain, but easy to feel. I bought it and love the G1000, but I'm not really feeling as "into" the aircraft as I feel in those other similarly priced addons.

Please don't insult the intelligence of your (potential) customers by going sticking to your "apples and oranges" defense, a lot of us will understand what he's on about and tend to agree with him. I think you'll find that the customers who buy and keep this aircraft will be limited to those craving a G1000 loaded Cessna single, and not that many else. The broad appeal of those competitors is rooted in a what I think is a general consensus on what might be called "the immersion factor" or whatever. It's hard to explain, but easy to feel. I bought it and love the G1000, but I'm not really feeling as "into" the aircraft as I feel in those other similarly priced addons.

The post was to Chock and avsim policy, not to customers or potential ones. Stick to the fact and don't distort my message.At this point, I have no further comments nor will I inhabit this forum any longer. I have more important things to do than entertain the avsim pissing matches. After over 10 years of access here, I am no longer interest in the debates. have fun. I'm out.

That's silly Jim, so you're saying if an Avsim Staff Reviewer has negative remarks about a product (price being one of them) then they shouldn't be allowed to share that opinion? Tom, himself has stated his extreme displeasure of a product, is he not allowed to tell the community about his negative experience? That is what this community is all about.

Wrong Sherlock. There are restrictions placed on those who carry orange commercial tags regarding positive/negative statements about other commercial devs products as to "relative worth", etc.Why would Avsim Staff be exempt from the same? A green Staff tag carries the same responsibility as an orange commercial tag in the eyes of most in the community.The apples/oranges argument prevails because it is based in common sense.:(

Wow Jim, getting a little more worked up then the comments I'm reading are really worth. That's just my opinion though which I assume is ok to share given that I'm just a regular 'ole passer by that likes and makes many flight sim add on purchases. I trust that the intricacies of the G1000 are indeed numerous and too deep for me to ever really comprehend, and I do know a bit about what the possibilities are from owning the Mustang, but by the same token I still feel like it's priced a bit out of its league. As mentioned there are numerous competing add-ons that seem to be priced lower, offering not the exact same types of systems, but others that are modeled with equal precision.You are free to price as you feel is right given the type of product you are offering, and honestly I'm free to offer an opinion about whether I agree with that price point. With some of your other products I do agree, but in this case I don't. That can be taken for what it's worth.

Wrong Sherlock. There are restrictions placed on those who carry orange commercial tags regarding positive/negative statements about other commercial devs products as to "relative worth", etc.Why would Avsim Staff be exempt from the same? A green Staff tag carries the same responsibility as an orange commercial tag in the eyes of most in the community.The apples/oranges argument prevails because it is based in common sense.

As far as avsim staff I am not aware of any rules prohibiting us having opinions on anything or expressing them as most of us are just members of this forum who volunteer our services to help out here. Ron is correct that we do have a rule about commercial members doing so though.As an avsim staffer I will go the other extreme and express my pleasure and good value with this product. It is interesting how my interests and needs in the sim have always paralled my rw experience, and now that I have been flying rw a DA40 with a g1000 I have been searching for what could bring me a useful training tool to practice in the sim in an airplane with similar performance. This product meets that end, and as pointed out the g1000 simulation in the unit with more recent data, smooth working, and more features implented than normally seen makes it a bargain in my book. The 182 part I don't have much need for-lol but it is done very nicely.Now that two avsim staffers have expressed opposite takes hopefully we can calm things down a little now...

You are free to price as you feel is right given the type of product you are offering, and honestly I'm free to offer an opinion about whether I agree with that price point. With some of your other products I do agree, but in this case I don't. That can be taken for what it's worth.

I'll add my voice to those who happily paid the $50 price - and in my case, I can assure you that this airplane is going to get a lot more flying time than the J41 which I purchased a while back.It all depends on what kind of airplanes you enjoy flying and what kind of avionics you enjoy interacting with..$50 seems about right to me for a quality airplane. :(

Wrong Sherlock. There are restrictions placed on those who carry orange commercial tags regarding positive/negative statements about other commercial devs products as to "relative worth", etc.Why would Avsim Staff be exempt from the same? A green Staff tag carries the same responsibility as an orange commercial tag in the eyes of most in the community.The apples/oranges argument prevails because it is based in common sense.:(

Turns out I was right... :biggrin:Messing with you Ron, but I will say I look forward to Avsim reviews (and yes, there are many that say "pricey compared to..." or "expensive considering..."). I also look forward to opinions from Avsim staff many of whom have been in this hobby as long as you or I, and who for the most part post their thoughts with the highest levels of integrity. Al is certainly one of those.Commercial members on the other hand should not be allowed to give there opinions of other products, mostly because of the fact that they have much to gain by slamming their competitors, what do Avsim Staff Members have to gain, that's the real difference.I will now leave this discussion, because I'm just a mouthy third party.And finally, as much as I love Flight 1, I already have a great aircraft with a G1000, the Flight 1 Mustang.

The post was to Chock and avsim policy, not to customers or potential ones. Stick to the fact and don't distort my message.At this point, I have no further comments nor will I inhabit this forum any longer. I have more important things to do than entertain the avsim pissing matches. After over 10 years of access here, I am no longer interest in the debates. have fun. I'm out.

I know who it was directed to, and it sure as heck wasn't only for Chock and the staff or it'd be done over PM. You're kind of whispering so loudly that our ears are ringing. I wasn't distorting your message, please don't divert attention to the argument itself by saying such things. You were clearly saying the aircraft in question weren't comparable - but some Avsim staffers, I and presumably a lot of other people think they are, at least as long as you price yourself into that kind of competition bracket. Frankly if Avsim staffers are afraid to speak their minds then they'd end up losing their standing as one of the simming world's most respected independent reporters and reviewers. Being afraid to speak their mind would be corrupt. Flight1 buys advertising space here I think. It'd be a shame if pressure from F1 would keep Avsim's staff from speaking their minds, as eventually it'd lead to their loss of cred and demise. Oh and BTW I'm not in any way implying that F1 does put pressure on Avsim, but it'd be a shame if they did.

Contrast the tone and content of this particular developer with Umberto of FSDT. Now that is apples and oranges.

I have many $30 dollar aircraft in my virtual hanger that never get used.They lack functionality or havea poor flight model that I've grown bored and frustrated with.If the T182 and It's G1000 are of the same quality as The F1 Mustang then I'd say $50 dollars is a fair price for the immersion one will receive.Also,It's returnable,You can't lose.