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The Living, Breathing World

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Well, at least on higher level current hardware, you can achieve quite usable results even if many settings are high. My NVidia 570 GTX + Core i7-2600K, 1920 res, FXAA antialiasing, almost all rendering settings up BUT no AI crafts (on Linux!) allows very fluid (above 40 FPS) in natural terrain with even shadows at max. In dense cities the FPS drops to (or below) 20, but for example by going down a notch or two with shadows, you again have quite usable FPS. So, the overall experienc is quite good ... but of course don't expect miracles on older (or lower power) hardware. The amount of visuals you see in the screenshots needs some decent hardware to be rendered ...(thinking otherwise would be foolish).Disclaimer: my performance quotes are unofficial and just my experience from what I have seen during development (in the last days). The results might greatly wary at release, and especially with the different hardware and OS configurations out there!

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Going by these screenshots that were posted at the top of this thread, and the screenshots I have seen of Flight...FSX or Flight don't stand a chance. So it looks like you will get your wish.
Hello GoranLets get real here, Flight! will outsell XP-10 by a very large margin, will have more products developed for it and be a better all round simulator.The codebase has too much of a head start and a much larger userbase and addon market.XP-10 will outsell XP-9 and is a step in the right direction, but that is all it is a step, not a huge stride.The very worst thing Laminar can do right now is push this out of the door in its present state, Microsoft will look at it then match or exceed every feature before releasing Flight!.What X-Plane needs is to be more than just Austins idea of what a flight simulator should be, Get the aircraft right , then the airports, then the ATC then the AIGet the world the program is simulating working correctly with seasons , regional urban and rural textures ect.Then when all that is done start worrying about autogen and freeway signs.Zero point in going on about a plausible world when you only have one plausible airport to fly out of.

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Hello GoranLets get real here, Flight! will outsell XP-10 by a very large margin, will have more products developed for it and be a better all round simulator.The codebase has too much of a head start and a much larger userbase and addon market.XP-10 will outsell XP-9 and is a step in the right direction, but that is all it is a step, not a huge stride.The very worst thing Laminar can do right now is push this out of the door in its present state, Microsoft will look at it then match or exceed every feature before releasing Flight!.What X-Plane needs is to be more than just Austins idea of what a flight simulator should be, Get the aircraft right , then the airports, then the ATC then the AIGet the world the program is simulating working correctly with seasons , regional urban and rural textures ect.Then when all that is done start worrying about autogen and freeway signs.Zero point in going on about a plausible world when you only have one plausible airport to fly out of.
When?

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Going by these screenshots that were posted at the top of this thread, and the screenshots I have seen of Flight...FSX or Flight don't stand a chance. So it looks like you will get your wish.
For someone that keeps blowing up at and getting defensive against anyone who questions X-plane, you sure seem to be doing the opposite, constantly posting snarky comments about how FSX/Flight are done, have no chance, are dead, whatever.Let's just be honest and I appreciate most of the other developers/inside sources here for being so. By simply telling me what will and won't be there in the first release I've been able to form my opinions, not on the hype you continue to pursue while ignoring the obvious flaws/limitations of XP10, but on the facts.And the facts are that there's a ton to love at what we are seeing. The screenshots are great. The world/scenery is going to blow FSX out of the water and anyone who doesn't see that is in denial IMO.BUT...FSX/Flight are not going to be dead or be going anywhere until XP10 comes with more then a single airport with semi-accurate buildings, an ATC system at least on FSX's level, higher resolution ground textures across the world, season changes, an AI system to accurately portrays traffic levels/schedules, and some major releases of complex airliners and other 3rd party aircraft.Some of that, specifically the AI system and complex aircraft, will likely be something a 3rd party will develop. That's fine and expected. But until it's available it's not there (simple I know) and people who like IFR flights with traffic into detailed major airports with accurate complex airliners will be sticking with FSX. That's a huge segment of the hardcore FSX community at this point.Autogen, lighting, and shadows, as amazing as they are, aren't putting a death nail into FSX anytime soon and that's ok. It's possible for both to exist as products at the same time.For me, I'll probably be using XP10 for VFR flights over city environments where the autogen shines while FSX will still be my go too sim for everything else (IFR flights, Airliners, detailed Airport environments, etc.). That's going to be true for a ton of people for a while. As a smaller developer, I understand they are limited and I understand that. So I'm not damning them for the limitations at this point.

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A comment here.MSFS also worked with the idea of sloped runways. The problem is, and it HAS been a problem in X-Plane, is the lack of elevation points to make these runways totally realistic. Some runways work out, but some are exaggerated to the point.........that they'd never let that go in real life. They would have done some excavation work, before asphalt..........for sure!In other words, when you land on an X-Plane sloped runway, don't make the assumption that the real one is going to have the same look to it. Sometimes the slope adds to the effect , and sometimes...........it's just to far fetched.edit: With MSFS, you can choose to land your Piper Cub, on just about any sloped hill or mountain, with or with out some type of road. The aircraft will decelerate uphill, and gain speed going down. It's the airports that MSFS ultimately chose to flatten, because the layout of airport buildings (from Jeppeson charts), which are included by default, just doesn't work, when the runway elevations get too much slope due to not having reworked elevation points, every few feet. You'd have to take tens of thousands of airports, and rework these all by hand, to make it realistic across the board.L.Adamson
That sure was a big part of it, I know it is for me. To do slope runways properly is going to require a much higher resolution mesh then either sim can produce. I think though the main reason they didn't go with sloped runways, were they couldn't get the AI to work with them. Sloped runways are possible in FSX but without AI some 3rd party developers have done this. Courchevel being one of them.

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Well, at least on higher level current hardware, you can achieve quite usable results even if many settings are high. My NVidia 570 GTX + Core i7-2600K, 1920 res, FXAA antialiasing, almost all rendering settings up BUT no AI crafts (on Linux!) allows very fluid (above 40 FPS) in natural terrain with even shadows at max. In dense cities the FPS drops to (or below) 20, but for example by going down a notch or two with shadows, you again have quite usable FPS. So, the overall experienc is quite good ... but of course don't expect miracles on older (or lower power) hardware. The amount of visuals you see in the screenshots needs some decent hardware to be rendered ...(thinking otherwise would be foolish).Disclaimer: my performance quotes are unofficial and just my experience from what I have seen during development (in the last days). The results might greatly wary at release, and especially with the different hardware and OS configurations out there!
Could you tell about vram usage as well?

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Well, at least on higher level current hardware, you can achieve quite usable results even if many settings are high. My NVidia 570 GTX + Core i7-2600K, 1920 res, FXAA antialiasing, almost all rendering settings up BUT no AI crafts (on Linux!) allows very fluid (above 40 FPS) in natural terrain with even shadows at max. In dense cities the FPS drops to (or below) 20, but for example by going down a notch or two with shadows, you again have quite usable FPS. So, the overall experienc is quite good ... but of course don't expect miracles on older (or lower power) hardware. The amount of visuals you see in the screenshots needs some decent hardware to be rendered ...(thinking otherwise would be foolish).Disclaimer: my performance quotes are unofficial and just my experience from what I have seen during development (in the last days). The results might greatly wary at release, and especially with the different hardware and OS configurations out there!
Good info. Thanks for sharing.

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What X-Plane needs is to be more than just Austins idea of what a flight simulator should be, Get the aircraft right , then the airports, then the ATC then the AIGet the world the program is simulating working correctly with seasons , regional urban and rural textures ect.Then when all that is done start worrying about autogen and freeway signs.
I'm sure Austin and the gang would love to implement all of these things and have the time to polish the code to perfection, but they're a small outfit and don't have Microsoft's millions behind them. I suspect that a large part of the reason for a hard release date in December is because they're running out of money for development and need to generate some revenue to keep things going.

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For someone that keeps blowing up at and getting defensive against anyone who questions X-plane, you sure seem to be doing the opposite, constantly posting snarky comments about how FSX/Flight are done, have no chance, are dead, whatever.Let's just be honest and I appreciate most of the other developers/inside sources here for being so. By simply telling me what will and won't be there in the first release I've been able to form my opinions, not on the hype you continue to pursue while ignoring the obvious flaws/limitations of XP10, but on the facts.And the facts are that there's a ton to love at what we are seeing. The screenshots are great. The world/scenery is going to blow FSX out of the water and anyone who doesn't see that is in denial IMO.BUT...FSX/Flight are not going to be dead or be going anywhere until XP10 comes with more then a single airport with semi-accurate buildings, an ATC system at least on FSX's level, higher resolution ground textures across the world, season changes, an AI system to accurately portrays traffic levels/schedules, and some major releases of complex airliners and other 3rd party aircraft.Some of that, specifically the AI system and complex aircraft, will likely be something a 3rd party will develop. That's fine and expected. But until it's available it's not there (simple I know) and people who like IFR flights with traffic into detailed major airports with accurate complex airliners will be sticking with FSX. That's a huge segment of the hardcore FSX community at this point.Autogen, lighting, and shadows, as amazing as they are, aren't putting a death nail into FSX anytime soon and that's ok. It's possible for both to exist as products at the same time.For me, I'll probably be using XP10 for VFR flights over city environments where the autogen shines while FSX will still be my go too sim for everything else (IFR flights, Airliners, detailed Airport environments, etc.). That's going to be true for a ton of people for a while. As a smaller developer, I understand they are limited and I understand that. So I'm not damning them for the limitations at this point.
Please re-read my post. You basically repeated what I said, using different words. I never said FSX or Flight were "dead". I said X Plane 10, going by what I have seen so far, will be better. All I have seen of Flight is many screenshots of Hawaii. And most of those screenshots look like a pumped up FSX. The latest screenshots, especially the fog transitioning looks awesome. Just to re-iterate, I have NEVER said FSX or Flight are "done". On the contrary, I have posted a statement in these forums that said I am sure FSX still has a good few years left in it. Some of my posts seem "snarky" because I post them with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. And they have only been posted when people start saying pretty crazy things.

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I'm sure Austin and the gang would love to implement all of these things and have the time to polish the code to perfection, but they're a small outfit and don't have Microsoft's millions behind them. I suspect that a large part of the reason for a hard release date in December is because they're running out of money for development and need to generate some revenue to keep things going.
HelloWhen Austin sells the Cirrus, the Ferrari and the 50th Anniversary Vette, I will know they are running out of money LOLhttp://www.x-plane.com/adventures/cirrus_howto.html

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Not too long ago, Austin was driving past an animal shelter that, I think, was on the verge of closing down. He stopped by and wrote them a cheque for $1.5 million. I think Austin is doing just fine in the dollars department.

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The only thing we have talked about is shadows of trucks? We've posted scenery screenshots, autogen screenshots, 3d volumetric cloud screenshots, videos of FSWeekend, discussed the scenery, discussed the framerates and hardware needed, discussed how the AI uses the CPU, had 2 X Plane team members make several posts to try and clarify certain things, I could go on. And you say that all we have discussed is truck shadows?There have been at least 2 videos of XP10 AI. The interface looks to be the same one that has been used for the past 5 or so versions. I doubt it's getting changed and I doubt the x plane community would want it changed. We've grown used to it. Some of us for up to 10 years. And you say we have only discussed truck shadows.Honestly, some people totally baffle me.
You shouldn't be baffled ... As a developer, you should try to create a good discussions regarding XP,.... yet, you make the above comment, what a turn off. Obviously, most would agree that the talk as been mostly about the trucks and the trees and not much about the ATC, AI, detailed airports, interface, etc. Create a good environment for XP users .... answer the questions constructively and not condescendingly.

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Hello GoranLets get real here, Flight! will outsell XP-10 by a very large margin, will have more products developed for it and be a better all round simulator.
Based on what? No one knows which sim will outsell which sim and by what margin. Least of all me. Based on what I have seen, and reading the various forum posts by other users, X Plane 10 will be "better" than Flight. The only exceptional quality I have seen of Flight is the new fog transitions. Honestly, everything else looks like a souped up version of FSX. There has been no mention of any new kind of programming used, the autogen looks NOTHING like XP10 (and I think we can all agree on that) and, correct me if I'm wrong, it won't have HDR lighting effects, including heat shimmer. So, for ME, imo, XP10 will be better, overall, than Flight. I could very easily be wrong. Time will tell. Just because something is more popular, it doesn't mean it's better. Don't forget the other sim that's out and, afaik, is compatible with all FSX products. Prepar3d. I'm inclined to believe FSX developer will develop for THAT platform before they develop for Flight. Again, just my opinion.
The codebase has too much of a head start and a much larger userbase and addon market.
Of course it has a head start, but they haven't capitalized on it. From what I remember, FSX's flight model has been recycled from FS2000 to 2002 to 2004 and then to FSX. As a result, FSX has become a bloated piece of software (as stated by many developers) that needs serious tweaking to run properly. Heck, there's even a website dedicated to optimising the FSX.cfg file. To me, that's insane.
XP-10 will outsell XP-9 and is a step in the right direction, but that is all it is a step, not a huge stride.The very worst thing Laminar can do right now is push this out of the door in its present state, Microsoft will look at it then match or exceed every feature before releasing Flight!.
I agree with you on 1 thing but not the other. XP10 will definitely outsell X Plane 9. But it is definitely a huge stride. Like I said, HDR lighting, 3d volumetric clouds, autogen that has never been seen before in any sim. To me, those are huge strides. Austin has stated before, he doesn't care what Microsoft come out with. He's only interested in making a flight simulator that he is happy with.
What X-Plane needs is to be more than just Austins idea of what a flight simulator should be, Get the aircraft right , then the airports, then the ATC then the AIGet the world the program is simulating working correctly with seasons , regional urban and rural textures ect.Then when all that is done start worrying about autogen and freeway signs.Zero point in going on about a plausible world when you only have one plausible airport to fly out of.
I have always said I would love to see seasons and also different waters. For example, I love the tropics and I would love to see tropical colored waters. And sure, this is a definite short coming in x plane. I never said X Plane was perfect. No one has. But it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.

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You shouldn't be baffled ... As a developer, you should try to create a good discussions regarding XP,.... yet, you make the above comment, what a turn off. Obviously, most would agree that the talk as been mostly about the trucks and the trees and not much about the ATC, AI, detailed airports, interface, etc. Create a good environment for XP users .... answer the questions constructively and not condescendingly.
Don't kid yourself. You're the one who was already turned off. Not just by X Plane in general, but by truck shadows, and then made a big deal about how it doesn't add to the immersion level. It was explained that the sun in x plane casts a shadow on every object in the x plane world. And you seem to have this fixation on them by repeating your sentiments in your latest post. Completely disregarding all the other informative posts about nearly every aspect of XP10. People have taken the time to explain things in detail, and you make a post about how we only talk about truck shadows. The questions were answered by myself and several other people, VERY constructively and you either chose to, or completely failed to see that. Yes, I'm still baffled. Of course, I could talk to you like you're a 5 year old, but I do give you a lot more credit than that.

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Was there something written somewhere about why SLI was not implemented for XP-10, if not can somebody tell me why it's not?I'm asking because all modern games are built to use the power of 2 cards in SLI.Is this something that the team at XP-10 will work on down the road or is this something that will not be worked on?

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