Kyle, where are my hugs and rainbows? :wub:

 

Trying to tone it down a little bit.

My apologies, Kyle! (and to any other offended)

 

My comment wasn't meant with intention of breaking any rules.

My enquiry was made out of curiosity.

 

I took your comment as more curious than anything, really, that's why I didn't quote you in my response.

 

I've been in your shoes before, but my situation involved a heavy handed cop and a bunch of naivete on my part.  That was fun...

Luckily, the usual response to seeing it on my job applications and background investigation forms was "that's pretty ridiculous."

 

I figured I'd let you know before it got the chance to involve anyone who would be heavy handed.  :wink:

Thanks for the 'warning', Kyle! :) 

Might I make a suggestion regarding licensing options?  I understand the need to monetize and develop a new revenue stream from a business perspective, however as a customer (and fan) I would recommend perhaps offering some kind of "license conversion" option for existing customers to "port" their license over to P3D.  That way everybody wins.  

 

 

Might I make a suggestion regarding licensing options?  I understand the need to monetize and develop a new revenue stream from a business perspective, however as a customer (and fan) I would recommend perhaps offering some kind of "license conversion" option for existing customers to "port" their license over to P3D.  That way everybody wins.  

 

Except PMDG who have to pay for your non-entertainment license to Boeing.

 

It was said that there will be a discount for existing customers, if (legal) situation allows for it.

I just made a leap to P3D and wow was i satisfied This is what Fsx was supposed to be, now im waiting eagerly news from Pmdg about products they are going to make available for P3D. Okay, im going to use Fsx also on those planes not yet available for P3D. So satisfied flying with these sims...

Except PMDG who have to pay for your non-entertainment license to Boeing.

 

It was said that there will be a discount for existing customers, if (legal) situation allows for it.

 

I'm asking for some clarification is all.  If I paid a combined $95 for the 737 + expansion for FSX and PMDG asks me to pay a further $70 or $80 to use it in P3D and calls that a "discount", I'm not interested.  

I'm asking for some clarification is all.  If I paid a combined $95 for the 737 + expansion for FSX and PMDG asks me to pay a further $70 or $80 to use it in P3D and calls that a "discount", I'm not interested.  

 

Because it will be different, probably SP2, and tuned to run on DX11, and more bugs worked out, I think it will be an entirely different aircraft for an entirely new platform (P3D v2.X or P3D v3), and you WILL pay more for it if you want it to run in P3D...  My opinion only....

Because it will be different, probably SP2, and tuned to run on DX11, and more bugs worked out, I think it will be an entirely different aircraft for an entirely new platform (P3D v2.X or P3D v3), and you WILL pay more for it if you want it to run in P3D...  My opinion only....

 

PMDG's own statements on the matter certainly do not indicate a vastly re-worked plane.  Bug-fixed to work better with P3D?  Certainly.  Hardly "DX11 tuned" as you put it.  Certainly not "an entirely different aircraft".  If they want to deliver such an aircraft that would be great!  Don't expect it this year though.  They're already late to the game on this one, delaying it even further only opens up the market for competitors (albeit those on a different platform since no one seems to want to directly compete with PMDG on ESP-based products).  

PMDG's own statements on the matter certainly do not indicate a vastly re-worked plane.  Bug-fixed to work better with P3D?  Certainly.  Hardly "DX11 tuned" as you put it.  Certainly not "an entirely different aircraft".  If they want to deliver such an aircraft that would be great!  Don't expect it this year though.  They're already late to the game on this one, delaying it even further only opens up the market for competitors (albeit those on a different platform since no one seems to want to directly compete with PMDG on ESP-based products).  

I agree w/ this analysis re tuning or optimization for P3D 2.x.  First, I've read nothing about what optimization could possibly mean.  Already, w/ relatively easy to process add on planes like the QW757 I find w/ high end hardware that I have, for a quality experience it's typically best to avoid hybrid mode for FTX regions and just stick w/ Global only.   Until LM comes out w/ some sort of at least theoretical claim that 'optimization' for P3D can offer x amount of performance improvement I think PMDG stuff w/ the legal and installation issues solved will not run very well in P3D 2.x.  The sim is still is easily CPU-bound and my sense is that complex aircraft really tax the CPU.   The other looming reality is that it's conceivable the service life for anything 'optimized', unless it's quite simple to do work-wise, might be quite short if LM decides to do the quantum jump to 64-bit AND DX12 optimization.

They're already late to the game on this one, delaying it even further only opens up the market for competitors (albeit those on a different platform since no one seems to want to directly compete with PMDG on ESP-based products).  

 

I think you vastly underestimate the legal issues surrounding everything here.

 

As I've mentioned before:

P3D requires a different licensing scheme, simply because it's a commercial sim, and not an entertainment one.  If my license for data from a company states that it is for use in FSX-only, then I have to go back to them to license the data for P3D.  Since they'll see that P3D is a commercial sim, then they will likely adjust the cost of licensing their data to get some of the cut from the sales gained on a commercial product (those who use commercial products usually have deeper pockets - again: P3D is not aimed at the home simmer, regardless of what the sim group thinks).

 

Other developers existing in that realm does not mean they exist there legally.  It's just like speeding.  You can do it, but it doesn't make it legal.  Then again, I'm not in the position to speak to other developers' legal matters.  If they're using Boeing data, they're likely putting themselves at risk by not negotiating another license (which would also manifest itself in a higher cost for a P3D license).  Again - not sure this is what they're doing, but based on what I see, that's my guess.

 

As a final example of that, I'll offer this:

I have AFE to manipulate airport scenery.  There's a commercial license required in order to sell your products.  Could I use the free version and still get paid?  Sure, but I'm opening myself up to legal risk by doing so if I'm caught.

 

You might call it "opening the market for competitors."  I'll call it (and I'm sure PMDG calls it) "minimizing legal risk."  Given the cost of lawsuits (ever take a look at what the developer of X-Plane was facing, legally, even when he was operating in the clear?), I'd say that's a prudent move.  Particularly when the players are Lockheed Martin and Boeing...

I think you vastly underestimate the legal issues surrounding everything here.

 

As I've mentioned before:

P3D requires a different licensing scheme, simply because it's a commercial sim, and not an entertainment one.  If my license for data from a company states that it is for use in FSX-only, then I have to go back to them to license the data for P3D.  Since they'll see that P3D is a commercial sim, then they will likely adjust the cost of licensing their data to get some of the cut from the sales gained on a commercial product (those who use commercial products usually have deeper pockets - again: P3D is not aimed at the home simmer, regardless of what the sim group thinks).

 

Other developers existing in that realm does not mean they exist there legally.  It's just like speeding.  You can do it, but it doesn't make it legal.  Then again, I'm not in the position to speak to other developers' legal matters.  If they're using Boeing data, they're likely putting themselves at risk by not negotiating another license (which would also manifest itself in a higher cost for a P3D license).  Again - not sure this is what they're doing, but based on what I see, that's my guess.

 

As a final example of that, I'll offer this:

I have AFE to manipulate airport scenery.  There's a commercial license required in order to sell your products.  Could I use the free version and still get paid?  Sure, but I'm opening myself up to legal risk by doing so if I'm caught.

 

You might call it "opening the market for competitors."  I'll call it (and I'm sure PMDG calls it) "minimizing legal risk."  Given the cost of lawsuits (ever take a look at what the developer of X-Plane was facing, legally, even when he was operating in the clear?), I'd say that's a prudent move.  Particularly when the players are Lockheed Martin and Boeing...

 

I think this argument, while technically interesting, is largely irrelevant in the grand scheme.  

 

PMDG sells flight simulator add-ons to consumers.  Unless they want to sell to corporations, their pricing must remain reasonable to consumers.  I, as a consumer, get to decide what I am willing to pay for a given product.  If company A does not offer the desired product at a price I am willing to pay, I simply will not purchase it.  This essentially trumps all other arguments.  You can talk about the legal logistics until you're blue in the face but at the end of the day if PMDG can't offer any of their products on PMDG at consumer prices they will cease to remain relevant to consumers using P3D.  As of this moment, I run FSX and P3D until the day that I no longer need to run FSX (which I await eagerly).  

 

Another way to say this: if the legal obstacles to offering their products will result in a price that is outside the grasp of most consumers, they shouldn't bother with the matter.  

 

 

if the legal obstacles to offering their [PMDG] products will result in a price that is outside the grasp of most consumers, they shouldn't bother with the matter.

 

Well done, sir.

Yeap the price is really the only major p3d problem right now. The pro version which EULA's for (simulation, education and familiarization; stuff which the serious simmer would do) is 200 dollars!

No one knows what the price will even be... so why are we drawing this whole thing out on undisclosed information?  It is a waste of time and resources.  Let's wait until the facts are out...

 

-Phil