Well you guys...Stardock will introduce Start10 which will give you all a Windows 7 start menu in Windows 10. If you can live with no more aero and the flat UI, then you'll have Windows 7 plus: multiple desktops, better task manager, better explorer,  better copy/move experience, faster boot times, more secure kernel, Task View, better command prompt, DX12, Hololense, simplified settings menu...etc

 

I really don't understand why folks are so quick to see Microsoft in such a negative light. Perhaps it's because it is so ubiquitous. Most of the serious work we do, whether it be actual work, gaming or simulation; is done on a windows PC. Maybe we want perfection from the thing that we depend upon the most. Apple's toys are a convenience and a diversion. Lightweight stuff. Gotta admire them for figuring it out though.

 

I have an idea. Why don't we go to California and ask Apple to create a flight simulator that would run natively on their operating system. While we're at it, we can demand that Lockheed Martin port P3D over to OSX. Then we can all bow down to them, whether it works or not. If it doesn't, we can blame Microsoft. 

Rob Ainscough, on 02 Apr 2015 - 5:18 PM, said:

 

  "At the very least Microsoft should offer some alternative UI OR allow 3rd party to provide an alternative UI ... but they don't practice what they preach ... there will be NO WAY to swap out the Win10 UI for something better.

 

Microsoft can't keep telling developers this is how you must code, but then not do it themselves ... credibility just goes out the window.

 

Cheers, Rob."

 

 

"Classic Shell" is highly recommended, IMHO, and reportedly already working for replacing the Windows 10 GUI with Windows Classic GUI:

 

http://www.classicshell.net/

 

NOTE: Does not disable the original start menu in Windows. You can (still) access it by Shift+Click on the start button

 

http://www.classicshell.net/features/

 

Hope this helps ! :smile:

 

GaryGB

...a flight simulator that would run natively on their operating system..

Such a thing already exists. Not only does it run natively on OS X, it's even developed mainly on it. You might have heard of it as 'X-Plane 10'. Rumour has it that it's even 64-bit...

Unfortunately they missed half the features out!

 

Just joking, couldn't resist. I badly want xplane to be better, almost as much as I want prepar3d to be 64bit!

I view OS desktop UI's sorta like clothing ... if I hang on to my 80's clothes long enough it'll come back "in fashion" (just like 70's clothing came back in fashion).

 

I don't really subscribe to a UI that changes just to be different ... that does nothing for me, it doesn't make me more productive, doesn't reduce the number of clicks and/or mouse motions, doesn't auto optimize my desktop space, doesn't remember how I arrange simultaneous multiple application layouts on my desktop, basically Windows 10 hasn't really done anything that makes my life easier.

 

There still is no function/feature where I can hit a button that says "reset all my hardware to default state" ... allowing me to upgrade my motherboard, GPU, RAM, etc. without having re-install the OS.  Sure there are very worky ways to do this with a 50/50 chance of success ... but this is a "REAL" feature that I'd like to see in an OS.  OSX can do this with time machine, Windows 10 has no such feature.

 

The ONLY reason I'm moving to Win 10 is for DX12 ... and that's exactly why Microsoft will not provide DX12 for Win7.

 

There is so much that can be done with a new Windows OS that is NOT being done, changing around a UI that has no real benefit to my productivity isn't something I want?  Why do I want a flat 2D desktop ... I don't ... I want a desktop that can leverage my GPU.  Why can't I navigate my Visual Studio code in 3D world where I visually zoom down and thru and up and back my call stack?  I've long since had the GPU and hardware that could easily do this.

 

Why can't the OS notice that I regularly work with a given set of applications in a specific desktop arrangement and then ask me if I'd like to save this arrangement and automatically make me a desktop icon that I can click the next time and it'll load all my apps and projects and arrange the windows just like I had them?  This is BASIC stuff that should have been introduced over a decade ago.

 

I don't want a desktop that looks like my phone nor acts like my phone ... it's sorta insulting my intelligence assuming I can't handle one device being different than the other.  From a coding perspective it's actually more difficult to code a "one UI for all" because you're constantly compromising two very different environments.

 

There is very little innovation from Microsoft -- how long did it take for them to finally do a DX12?  Why encourage PC gaming/simulations when you are trying to sell XBOX content?  That's why we didn't see a DX12 sooner.  

 

And I'm not saying Apple are necessarily that much better, they've got many of the same issues ... Apple will obsolete end users after about 2 or 3 updates ... very much keep up (hardware wise) or don't update sorta company ... Apple doesn't hang on to a compatibility layers for anywhere near as long as Microsoft does ... this has some pro's and con's to it.

 

Sorry, but Microsoft are so far OFF THE MARK in providing useful tools.  I'm glad Win 10 will be free at least ... and I'm sure that's because it's hard to sell "nothing" ... although Seinfeld was able to run for 9 years on a show about nothing

 

Cheers, Rob.

I too wonder such thoughts about windows.  Seems they are far more interested in appealing to know-nothing noobs than to those who use computers for their livelyhood, personal productivity or pastime.  I guess they figure they already have the latter group hooked as customers, and thus most sales growth should come from appealing to that former group...right?

 

I can't stand the sparseness of current round of MS office UIs.  It's like we all digressed 20 years in the past 3.  Who's really happy with this dung (polite version)?  No one I work with...

Theres nothing for free in the world. Everything is about making money in the corporate world. So, where is the profit in giving Win10 away for nothing? Obviously its because there's a cost further down the line in subscription based services (bah!) or they are laying the foundations for a vastly more profitable layer of services they hope to base on it, as Denali believes is the case with VR, or both..... Or if you're a real conspiracist, what corporate or statist mal/spyware will you be getting bundled with your free OS? If this werent the case, why not offer an upgrade path to DX12 for win7?

 

Why fiddle with the UI? Simply because most people will think because it looks different and flashy, it must be better than whatever they have now, essentially a smoke and mirror job to misdirect the masses away from whatever the real intent is.

 

Id prefer having to pay for it to be honest....if only for creating a contractual relationship concerning what I am and am not paying for that can be relied on in the future... Im afraid I will likely be forced to maintain 2 machines, 1 with win10 for simming and 1 with win7 for anything else :(

Why fiddle with the UI? Simply because most people will think because it looks different and flashy, it must be better than whatever they have now.

 

You hit the nail on the head. The UI is changed for change's sake, just because people don't like flashy icons. I honestly think the late 2000's spawned the two best-looking and best-performing OSes up till now: Windows 7 and Mac OS X Snow Leopard. Aero was beautiful - it improved upon Vista under the hood and made subtle tweaks and changes that still make it a joy to use. I like the transparency, reflectiveness and curved edges of the Windows 7 window borders - the 'flatness' of Windows 8 makes me feel as though I am running an edged version of the Windows Basic theme that comes with Vista and 7.

 

i remember when I had a white polycarb 2007 Core 2 Duo MacBook. it lagged considerably under Leopard. Once I clean-installed Snow Leopard, I gained 25, yes, 25 GB of space off the puny 120 GB hard drive. My Mac literally flew on Snow Leopard. It looked good, too - beautiful, extremely detailed icons for everything, not the flat, childish bull-dung that Yosemite is today. Companies today apparently think that GPUs today cannot handle heavy transparency effects and animations - wasn't that why WDM.exe and Quartz Extreme were developed? 

 

To this day, the icon sets of Windows 7 and Snow Leopard remain the best-looking. They look realistic, modern and mature. They have effort put into each of them. I say this again: I redid Yosemite's Safari icon in Illustrator in half an hour. I could barely start on the Snow Leopard one - there was so much detail. 

 

 

Why fiddle with the UI? Simply because most people will think because it looks different and flashy, it must be better than whatever they have now, essentially a smoke and mirror job to misdirect the masses away from whatever the real intent is.

 

Sadly that thought process does work and probably would have worked with Win8.x ... however, one major reason for failure ... No Visual cues.

 

Most people (and yes I feel safe saying Most) don't read OS manuals ... so there NEEDS to be some level of user direction in the form of visual cues.  Hunt and guess just doesn't work for a user interface ... it's not a matter of right or wrong, a UI needs to meet "how the user actually works", not how the "developer/designer thinks a user should work".

 

Microsoft can make money and could have made plenty of money if they built Win8.x "for the people" rather than for "reduction of support/development with 1 UI for all" ... end users don't care about an OS being convenient for developers, they don't care about 1 interface for all, they just want an interface that is easy to use and works with as little as possible learning.  It's a legitimate request, and it's why Microsoft failed miserably with Win8.x.

 

Cheers, Rob.

been using windows 10 with p3d and xplane through each build, i have not had any issues at all, you shouldnt jump to conclusions, just because it doesnt work for you.

eventually windows 7 will be the next xp and support being gone.

im having a great time with windows 10 running  FSX:SE

 

Positive points:

 

No YOke dosconnects whatsoever

good frame rates on PMDG 777 & 737 23 to 40 fps

good VAS management no crash Vas run out on approaches

no crashes OOMS.

 

Negatives:

 

Have to reinstall license code on each update for PMDG

FSX.cfg had to tweak (ensure you have a back up saved FSX:SE has back up of previous installs)

affinity mask saved as 14

 

I took the gamble and I can now on qantas virtual achieve 14 hour flights with the 777 :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

what happened to 9? :rolleyes:

 

Because 7 8 9

 

... get it? 

Sadly that thought process does work and probably would have worked with Win8.x ... however, one major reason for failure ... No Visual cues.

Rob, I fully agree with what you wrote. I have had a Toshiba Thrive Android tablet for over two years...

 

...and it has mostly been a very expensive tabletop decoration largely because the OS is so stupidly simplified (looks a lot like Win8 actually) that I just can't seem to get it to work as I'd like to.

 

I have yet to figure out how to close any program once its been opened. Any GUI should be largely intuitive to use, and not require anyone to spend hours searching for answers.

new nvidia drivers are out for windows 10, the first non beta drivers for it,there is a short article about it on winbeta

Part of the reason behind similar UI's is to make it easier to develop apps that work from phone to tablet to computer to tv to Xbox. Write once, run anywhere, a bit like Java tried to achieve. Part of the reasoning behind that is to attract as many developers as possible, and state to them that they only need to write an app once and re-write for every conceivable platform, which is a nightmare. This is also a large driving force behind W10 being free for a year, so they can say to the developers "look how many devices it's running on"

 

I personally have no issue with the UI of 8.1. With 7 I never used the start menu anyway, I click start and typed what I wanted. W8 does this just without a start bar. Makes absolutely no difference to me. I quite like being able to have two desktops as well, I can easily pin something to the left hand side of the screen, and then have my desktop on the rest. I've used that a lot. Let's also remember that W8 is more secure, and Microsoft actually managed to make it backwards compatible with applications, something a lot of OS's have had issues with. However it's not to everyone's taste, and it's easy to change to a W7 look, or anything you want. I remember playing with Litestep a few years ago. Top me the W10 interface looks like the interface W8 should have had, a bit more sensible and well thought out, it's a more mature version of the UI

 

As to what you said about Linux having different UI's Rob, yes it does, XFCE, Gnome, KDE...but they don't work across a multitude of different systems with wildly different sizes and have apps that can run across all, without re-writing sections. Which is what MS wants. Whether they will truly achieve that is to be see, but it's their aim. I can't knock them for having a go.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit works just fine here. I have no intention of "upgrading" to Windows 10.