I'm seeing similar threads on P3D related topics all over the Internet, people are angry/disappointed, although I'm not sure what everyone was expecting P3D v3 to actually be. I'm not on the beta team and haven't tried P3D since the release of v2, so I can't comment, but if I'm led to believe what I'm reading everywhere, users are being asked to pay again for what is essentially bug fixes and features they're not interested in (i.e. Simdirector, etc). I personally will try the 1 month developer license and give it a try and make my own judgement, but I'll be happy if I can run some of the scenery that previously would cause an OOM (FranceVFR). 

I'm not sure what everyone was expecting P3D v3 to actually be.

To be honest I don't think the discontented bunch have any idea themselves. Most still seem to view P3D as an entertainment product designed exclusively for their entertainment pleasure with all the bells and whistles of GTAV.  I bet if you polled them, they'll all say they expected 64 bit. (not that most of them actually understand what that means)

 

What is even more disappointing is that a notable flightsim Youtuber (not Froogle) has added his voice to the discontent stating that V3 is nothing but a bunch of bug fixes - which of course snowballs into most of his his 35000 parrot audience repeating after him. It is a great metaphor for the world we live in. Shoot from the hip, knee-jerkers with no further consideration or appreciation of context.

Was it really necessary to start a new topic for this...? Seriously...

+1

To be honest I don't think the discontented bunch have any idea themselves. Most still seem to view P3D as an entertainment product designed exclusively for their entertainment pleasure with all the bells and whistles of GTAV.  I bet if you polled them, they'll all say they expected 64 bit. (not that most of them actually understand what that means)

 

What is even more disappointing is that a notable flightsim Youtuber (not Froogle) has added his voice to the discontent stating that V3 is nothing but a bunch of bug fixes - which of course snowballs into most of his his 35000 parrot audience repeating after him. It is a great metaphor for the world we live in. Shoot from the hip, knee-jerkers with no further consideration or appreciation of context.

lol, well stated...

No I don't have v3. Nor do I see a straightforward thread here about the new upgrade being less than a Point release - which is exactly why I thought a separate new thread might be useful.

 

Really, is there no room for dissent here? There is nothing here to justify a full price/no upgrade path approach.

 

So I will do the "don't buy it" thing. That surely doesn't mean I can't express a view about it.

 

Give me 64bit. I'll pay what you like. Give me a few tweaks and ask me to pay full whack? I will not. And I am a P3D supporter. But not at any cost.

I think that it's time that AVSIM takes a hard look at those who ruin these forums with complaints about prices. Not picking on this one for any particular reason other than I've become fed up and disgusted with these type of posts. Most of them are in what I consider legitimate topics of discussion and yet I have to sift through this drivel time and time again. My blocked user list is about to become very long as I no longer wish to see it.

 

@AVSIM Administration:

**Please consider treating developer pricing in the same manner as EULA**

Agree with James - the choice to buy is not really a topic for discussion. It's a topic for personal review.

Topics here should be about informing that view, not clouding the judgment.

 

Those who haven't got it complaining about why they haven't bought it hardly constitutes information. Prepar3d is not compulsory in any version, and never has been. Qualification, yes. Compulsion. No.

It seems really sad to me that people want to tear into LM for releasing V3 rather than filtering the 'large amount' of fixes down to p3d v2 users. Let's take a look at what they've actually done.

 

Up to and including flight, Microsoft built the next version of FS on top of the last version. Sure it was recompiled, reworked and repackaged, but even I. FSX, there were still traces of the original assembly code in the core. And let's not forget Microsoft would release A new FS every two years or so, or in some cases, in as little as 18 months. Some of these releases were little more than a big service pack (FS 95 to fs98). So let's not pretend that LM are doing something new.

 

Besides, LM have been working since v1 to clean the code and add features since V1. The assembly code was stripped out of v1 along with other code fixes including a correction of small piece of code that controlled had been missed by ACES when they compiled FSX/ESP and possibly a few teams before that.

Then for V2 they overhauled the rendering engine, adding DX11, shadows, HDR lighting and with v2.5, a new file system that makes all future updates easier, without the need to reinstall the whole sim.

 

Now with V3 they've tackled the biggest issue for modern users, the oom. When FSX was created, no one saw the need to worry about exceeding the 4gb virtual memory limit. But after nearly 10 years of being static, developers and technology have caught up and that 4gb limit is easy to reach. Now FSX nor p3d, up until this point, has been written to release the previously loaded scenery. Take off from Heathrow and land at Hong Kong and Heathrow is still loaded into the system. Now given that LM has been working with the code base since 2010, I'm guessing working on rewriting just this section code to release that loaded scenery can't have been easy. How do you make sure you release the scenery correctly? How do you ensure that the scenery your approaching loads up correctly? How do you control the flow in and out, what's the correct speed to do this? The variables involved are vast. And that's just one of the many improvements that v3 includes.

 

V2 has been with us for almost two years, and in that time we've had 5 point releases (compare this to fs2004. 1 service pack in three years, FSX, two service packs in 9 years.) in that time we've have plenty of additions to the base (v2.0 had no cloud shadows at all). It's time for a new version. And if you don't think it's worth it, fine, but the work done now on V3 will impact V4. The install is already completely different to the previous versions and the new memory management will help the move to V4 and 64bits, because lifting the limit doesn't help if your using your resources poorly in the first place.

 

Finally, and here's the kicker. Your free to try the software for 60 days with a money back guarantee. Microsoft didn't offer that, and by damn when FSX came out and performed like a dog, there were more than a few people who would like a refund. If you dint want to spend the $199, the try a one month $10 subscription. Don't like it, get the $10 back.

 

Software development isn't cheap, it's not easy and it's often the case that you'll break more than you fix. After two years, it's time to update to a new version, and in two years the same thing will happen again. That's how it's always been, otherwise FS would have died out by v3 if it was free to existing users.

License discussion is not to happen. Cease and desist. Yes, seriously.

snip

 

Very well written post, sums up what I've wanted to say perfectly

It ...

Software development isn't cheap, it's not easy and it's often the case that you'll break more than you fix. After two years, it's time to update to a new version, and in two years the same thing will happen again. That's how it's always been, otherwise FS would have died out by v3 if it was free to existing users.

Well spoken and taken

 

Chas

To answer the thread title, Yes, P3D v3 = P3D v2.6....to me.

 

If you don't like it, don't buy it...and if you don't like someone's opinion, then disagree and move on. However, some people seem to want to police the boards to make sure no one says anything contrary to "their" opinion or against P3D.

 

What are we talking about here? V3 release notes are filled with bug fixes that V2 users should get without having to pay more for it. If you have "new" features, then fine, charge for them; but bug fixes should be freely given that V2 had many issues to begin with.

 

LM should have started with a subscription pricing model (annual fee of $50 or so) and gotten ahead of the pricing controversy that put them in the current position of wanting more funds now because many people chose the cheaper "academic" option in v2. While I originally did not like Micrososft's  direction with their office suite subscription, at least you have the latest and greatest version instead of being stuck with an old unsupported version. The constant funding pays for constant improvements.

 

So no, I don't need to "play" V3 when I can clearly see in both the release notes and the "quick" vid already posted that noting warrants me spending more money to get V3....that really is v2.6.

 

If you like and buy v3, I am happy for you. However, to condemn the customers who feel abandoned in v2 land is simply selfish. You either like it or you don't, and nothing is wrong with either decision.

 

So I will continue to fly v2.5...it works for my needs. When P3D can have a well running, stutter free performance at 15 LOD radius or more; have a full 3D ground environment; and have more realistic night lighting, then I pay more money. The goods news is....I think they will get there in the future, so I will pony up the cash then. In the meantime, I wait to see what DTG will bring to the sim world mix.

To answer the thread title, Yes, P3D v3 = P3D v2.6....to me.

 

I'm still waiting to see a FPS comparison of 2.5 versus 3.0 with similar settings and scenery. So far I haven't read one from anyone. Would seem that someone should know if 3.0  is better, worse, or the same. 

Edited September 30, 201510 yr by n4gix
Removed excessive quote! Again!

 

 

If you like and buy v3, I am happy for you. However, to condemn the customers who feel abandoned in v2 land is simply selfish. You either like it or you don't, and nothing is wrong with either decision.

 

Nicely said. There seems to be a lot of anger and disrespect in this thread from both sides. 

 

I personally believe bug fixes should be released for free (unless the bug fix is to add new functionality), and if the company I worked for tried to charge customers for bug fixes, there would be a big uproar and we'd end up losing customers, so I'm not sure why this should be any different for LM.  There are new features, but the majority of the features are of little interest to most simmers (but we also mustn't forget that we aren't LM's main market).

 

I think once we have a flight simulator that is designed and marketed for the entertainment market (Like Dovetail's rumoured flight-sim), then the upgrades will be more meaningful to us and probably worth the money (Although I'm sure there will still be complaints, e.g. FS9-FSX). 

 and if the company I worked for tried to charge customers for bug fixes, there would be a big uproar and we'd end up losing customers, so I'm not sure why this should be any different for LM.  

 

I also work for a software company and would loose a significant amount of customers if we pushed out a release, more than 50% of which contains bug fixes and then charging full price.

 

Each to their own, we all have a choice and right now those choices are limited. I'm not very happy about paying full price for bug fixes, however, I'll most likely end up purchasing it anyway, esp since there's a refund policy, only then, I can make an accurate and informed decision about whether V3 is worth it or not.

 

Forums are meant for people to voice opinions, concerns, to have discussions and it's sad to see some resorting to personal / ad hominem attacks vs having an actual discussion.

I also work for a software company and would loose a significant amount of customers if we pushed out a release, more than 50% of which contains bug fixes and then charging full price.

 

Each to their own, we all have a choice and right now those choices are limited. I'm not very happy about paying full price for bug fixes, however, I'll most likely end up purchasing it anyway, esp since there's a refund policy, only then, I can make an accurate and informed decision about whether V3 is worth it or not.

 

Forums are meant for people to voice opinions, concerns, to have discussions and it's sad to see some resorting to personal / ad hominem attacks vs having an actual discussion

 

 

I am on a couple of Facebook P3D forums, and I notice the tolerance level for differing opinions seems to be much broader than I have seen here so far.