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HyperThreading - My Take

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Long story short.  I've got an old i72600k 16 gb memory, sata ssd drives and a NVIDIA 1070 / 8gb.  I've been flight simming for well over 20 years and old timers on this board will recognize my name as a long time member.  I mostly lurk now a days.

So back to my story, like most of you I'm always looking for that magic bullet that will speed up frame rate AND stop the stutters.  New drivers, new configs, all sorts of voodoo in the quest of better performance, and I like many of you have tried them all, except one up to now.

So after my son bought an i5 9600k 6 cores, no HT, Highly Recommended for Gaming by other Gamers ($200.00 US) I started to read the game threads and they have all sorts of common wisdom as to why HT (Hyperthreading) or "Ghost Cores": are a bad BAD idea for gaming.  I've seen the same discussion myself here for many many years.  HT, Yes or No?  I've seen two camps and there was some "heat and friction" from both sides so I just figured that I would leave well enough alone and leave the HT On/Off switch in the bios alone...until 3 days ago.

I went in, turned off HT in bios.  Restarted.  Computer came right up.  Started P3dv4.5 in my default startup  It came right up and the first thing I noticed was my avg. fps on Rwy engines running had come up by 7 to 10 percent (2-3 fps).  Then I took off and started yanking the plane around the pattern and the first thing I noticed was, "Smoother...smoother frames, smoother response to stick, smoother..."  And it remains so to this day.  Best investment I've made in a long time and it cost me NOTHING.

True story.  YMMV  You cant hurt a thing and you can put it back with one reboot if you don't like it.

-Braun

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Thanks for posting your experience. Hyperthreading has indeed been a hot topic on and off in this forum. I have tried both,  but am happy to turn my hyperthreading off again with the new Nvidia drivers and latest system updates and give it another try.

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Like you, I’ve been simming for a lot of years.  I built a lot of PC’s over the years, keeping up with each release of MSFS & now P3D.  My latest rig is an 8700k and I have tested hyper threading ON and OFF extensively with many scenarios in P3D v 4.x, always looking for the magic ‘voodoo’, reading all the threads on this forum.  But I can definitively agree with you, HT OFF results in much smoother performance on this rig. I also take it a step further and use a tool to move (mask) other processes to ensure no one single ‘core’ is overloaded or near max when P3D is running.  This results in very smooth performance....usually  😉

What I’ve learned from reading all the posts, is that it seems to be machine / CPU specific.  I’ll upgrade HW next year, for v5 or FS20 or whatever, and then I’ll test it again, & might have better performance w/ HT ‘on’.   

Thanks for posting!  Blue skies, 

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11900K @ 4.8Ghz, MSI Z590, 32GB G.Skill 3600Mhz, Gigabyte RTX 3080, GoFlight modules, Oculus VR

 

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8700k here , tried with and without HT and it's definitely HT off for me. One thing I did was open Task manager during a couple of sessions and took a look occasionally to see what cores were used the most. Heavy loads all are used although I do see a definite trend for my P3D to use 0, 2 and 5 the most. 4 was the lowest always so I've got RealTime, AS and ASCA all parked on 4. It seems to make a difference. YMMV...😉


Gerald

EAA #: 1317747

i7 8700K 6-Core 3.7GHz (4.5GHz); ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-I Gaming ; RTX 2070 Super Turbo 8GB; 32GB G.Skill TridentZ 3000MHz; 250GB Samsung 960 Evo PCIe NVMe M.2; 2x 500GB Samsung 850 Evo Series SSD; 1TB WD Black HDD; Win10 Pro 64; P3D 4.5

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19 minutes ago, gsand said:

4 was the lowest always so I've got RealTime, AS and ASCA all parked on 4. It seems to make a difference. YMMV...😉

How do you do that? Never mind, I found out how to. Im going to try it tonight. 

Edited by TalonMX

Dan

i9-10900K@5.2 (HT off) / Asus Maximus Hero Z490 / RTX 3090 FE / Patriot Viper Steel 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 4400@4000CL17 / ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 / Phanteks Eclipse P600S / 2ea Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD 1TB / 1ea Samsung 850 EVO 1TB / EVGA 1000W G3, 80+ Gold / Arctic P14 PWM Case Fans / Sony 43in 4K / P3Dv5.3 & MSFS2020

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My cpu was running at 4.6 if I o/c to 4.8 after a few minutes the temps would go really high and I would get throttling I turned off ht and was able to o/c back up to 4.8 what a difference runs really smooth in vr with active sky  pmdg 737  I only have orbx global installed I deleted my other orbx sceneries England Norway Scotland and wales also Lc Europe but still use some orbx airports.


thank you,Jim

Asus Prime Z270-P| I7700k@4.6| 16gDDR4 3000 VengLpx|

Corsair H115aio Cooler| Evga GeForce 1080gpu|Corsair Rm750

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Although there are still people having different experience, I always get the best results out of my sim (was like that for FSX, P3Dv3 and now P3Dv4) with mimicking "HT off" by using an affinity mask entry doing this (01 01 01 01 01 01 or "1365" in my case).

Advantage: you do not have to manually switch HT off and you can still use HT for the other things you do with your rig. Of course, if you use your rig exclusively for simming, turning HT off in the BIOS might be the easier approach. But then, honestly, why buying a processor capable of HT?

Then, as @gsand said, moving as much addons running along P3D off core0 does wonders. I achieved this by using batch files for REX, ActiveSky and ProATC/X. Overall, my simming was never better than in those days. Almost always smooth, reasonable FPS, pretty high settings and almost no troubles.

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Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Sapphire RX 6900 XT SE, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 5.3, MSFS

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22 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Although there are still people having different experience, I always get the best results out of my sim (was like that for FSX, P3Dv3 and now P3Dv4) with mimicking "HT off" by using an affinity mask entry doing this (01 01 01 01 01 01 or "1365" in my case).

Advantage: you do not have to manually switch HT off and you can still use HT for the other things you do with your rig. Of course, if you use your rig exclusively for simming, turning HT off in the BIOS might be the easier approach. But then, honestly, why buying a processor capable of HT?

Then, as @gsand said, moving as much addons running along P3D off core0 does wonders. I achieved this by using batch files for REX, ActiveSky and ProATC/X. Overall, my simming was never better than in those days. Almost always smooth, reasonable FPS, pretty high settings and almost no troubles.

+1 , I use Process Lasso which saves the settings on reboot of PC so i dont have to make the CPU choices everytime.

Some people seems to have a problem with this software but i really havent noticed anything.

Michael Moe  

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Michael Moe

 

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I did excatly the same Braun. It was immediately apparent that although there was no gain in fps, the sim was far smoother with HT off and no AM setting of any kind in the cfg.


Howard
P3DV4.5, MSFS2020, MSI Mag Z490 Tomahawk MB, i7-10700 CPU @ 4.8ghz, Nvidia RTX3090 GPU, 32gb RAM@3200Mhz, SSD/2Tb+SSD/500Gb+OS, Corsair 1000W PSU, Philips BDM4350UC 43" 4K IPS, MFG Crosswinds, TQ6 Throttle, Fulcrum One Yoke

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A CPU upgrade meant I could no longer use Process Lasso, so I'm now using Prio Priority Saver. A once-off 'set and forget' of the processor affinities in Windows Task Manager, means no need for batch files, affinity mask in P3D.cfg, or turning HT / SMT off.

Using the program, I have the equivalent of an affinity mask for P3D running on the first logical processors of each core. I've shunted all other programs away onto lesser used threads.

CPU heat is acceptable at a maximum 77°C when I push all the settings to very high / ultra, and the only stuttering happens (briefly) when too much AI generates when I fly into range of a big airport (I have 650 AIG AI airlines installed and running at 100% because seeing every flight and full airports is my weakness).

Very happy to have found this solution as I get the best of both worlds, SMT on for daily tasks and a smooth P3D experience.


AMD Ryzen 5800X3D; MSI RTX 3080 Ti VENTUS 3X; 32GB Corsair 3200 MHz; ASUS VG35VQ 35" (3440 x 1440)
Fulcrum One yoke; Thrustmaster TCA Captain Pack Airbus edition; MFG Crosswind rudder pedals; CPFlight MCP 737; Logitech FIP x3; TrackIR

MSFS; Fenix A320; PMDG 736; FFX HondaJet; JF BAe Hawk T1/A; FS Reborn Sting S4
; AIG & FSLTL; RealTraffic; PSXT; REX AccuSeason; FS2Crew PBE + RAAS Pro; FS-ATC Chatter
P3Dv5.3 HF2, FS Global (mesh), Orbx, MSE, ActiveSky, RealTurb, ChasePlane, AIGAIM-OCI, AILRP, FS-ATC Chatter, FFTF Dynamic, Self Loading Cargo

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HT off on my 6700K 4-core Oldie results in massive Blurries.

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3 hours ago, F737NG said:

A CPU upgrade meant I could no longer use Process Lasso, so I'm now using Prio Priority Saver. A once-off 'set and forget' of the processor affinities in Windows Task Manager, means no need for batch files, affinity mask in P3D.cfg, or turning HT / SMT off.

Using the program, I have the equivalent of an affinity mask for P3D running on the first logical processors of each core. I've shunted all other programs away onto lesser used threads.

CPU heat is acceptable at a maximum 77°C when I push all the settings to very high / ultra, and the only stuttering happens (briefly) when too much AI generates when I fly into range of a big airport (I have 650 AIG AI airlines installed and running at 100% because seeing every flight and full airports is my weakness).

Very happy to have found this solution as I get the best of both worlds, SMT on for daily tasks and a smooth P3D experience.

What CPU upgrade did you do that prevented Process Lasso to be used? I’m about to fire up my new i9-9900KS build today.

Joe

Edited by joepoway

Joe (Southern California)

SystemI9-9900KS @5.1Ghz/ Corsair H115i / Gigabyte A-390 Master / EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid w 11Gb / Trident 32Gb DDR4-3200 C14 / Evo 970 2Tb M.2 / Samsung 40inch TV 40ku6300 4K w/ Native 30 hz capability  / Corsair AX850 PS / VKB Gunfighter Pro / Virpil MongoosT-50 Throttle / MFG Crosswind Pedals /   LINDA, VoiceAttack, ChasePlane, AIG AI, MCE, FFTF, Pilot2ATC, HP Reverb G2

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16 minutes ago, joepoway said:

What CPU upgrade did you do that prevented Process Lasso to be used? I’m about to fire up my new i9-9900KS build today.

AMD Ryzen 1700X to 3700X. Had stability issues as the new CPU didn't want to play nicely with PL.
Hopefully, you don't have any problems when using PL.

Enjoy the KS, fingers crossed you have a golden chip for 5.2 GHz all-core.
 


AMD Ryzen 5800X3D; MSI RTX 3080 Ti VENTUS 3X; 32GB Corsair 3200 MHz; ASUS VG35VQ 35" (3440 x 1440)
Fulcrum One yoke; Thrustmaster TCA Captain Pack Airbus edition; MFG Crosswind rudder pedals; CPFlight MCP 737; Logitech FIP x3; TrackIR

MSFS; Fenix A320; PMDG 736; FFX HondaJet; JF BAe Hawk T1/A; FS Reborn Sting S4
; AIG & FSLTL; RealTraffic; PSXT; REX AccuSeason; FS2Crew PBE + RAAS Pro; FS-ATC Chatter
P3Dv5.3 HF2, FS Global (mesh), Orbx, MSE, ActiveSky, RealTurb, ChasePlane, AIGAIM-OCI, AILRP, FS-ATC Chatter, FFTF Dynamic, Self Loading Cargo

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I have just switched mine off on my i9 9900k

and I must say it’ll the sim is smoother.

 

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2 hours ago, swiesma said:

HT off on my 6700K 4-core Oldie results in massive Blurries.

Bizarre. I have the same CPU and have experienced the exact opposite following exhaustive testing.


Howard
P3DV4.5, MSFS2020, MSI Mag Z490 Tomahawk MB, i7-10700 CPU @ 4.8ghz, Nvidia RTX3090 GPU, 32gb RAM@3200Mhz, SSD/2Tb+SSD/500Gb+OS, Corsair 1000W PSU, Philips BDM4350UC 43" 4K IPS, MFG Crosswinds, TQ6 Throttle, Fulcrum One Yoke

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