19 minutes ago, w6kd said:

I think all this really means is that the only real experiment in ESP <-> XPlane crossover aircraft development has come to an end.

It illustrates that the two platforms and their methodologies are enough different, at least in how FDE, modelling, and panel programming are done, that there truly isn't enough commonality in the skill sets needed to make a good add-on aircraft for each sim and to support/keep them viable through recurring platform update cycles.  That's why there are virtually no add-on aircraft developers that do both.  Each platform has its own ginormous list of idiosyncrasies and special development techniques, and very few folks can devote the time and resources to be successful at both.

So viva la difference, everybody can thrive and keep moving in their own lanes.

 

Justflight planes? Carenado ones? Milviz ported one over too?

No liners, that is true. But smaller ones did come. And carenado is doing some medium sized too.

23 minutes ago, w6kd said:

I think all this really means is that the only real experiment in ESP <-> XPlane crossover aircraft development has come to an end.

It illustrates that the two platforms and their methodologies are enough different, at least in how FDE, modelling, and panel programming are done, that there truly isn't enough commonality in the skill sets needed to make a good add-on aircraft for each sim and to support/keep them viable through recurring platform update cycles.  That's why there are virtually no add-on aircraft developers that do both.  Each platform has its own ginormous list of idiosyncrasies and special development techniques, and very few folks can devote the time and resources to be successful at both.

So viva la difference, everybody can thrive and keep moving in their own lanes.

 

Goodness,finally a grown up Thank you!

Please Moderators  make it stick

20 hours ago, eaim said:

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/25608-07nov19-pmdg-product-trajectory-alignment-what-to-expect-in-the-coming-weeks-months-hours-etc

Sorry to say it's the end of the road for PMDG and Xplane, no more development. It even looks bad for P3D. They are concentrating on the new MSFS from now on.

Feels political to me. Pretty much like other statements he's made in the past designed to stampede the market in a certain directions......

36 minutes ago, w6kd said:

I think all this really means is that the only real experiment in ESP <-> XPlane crossover aircraft development has come to an end.

It illustrates that the two platforms and their methodologies are enough different, at least in how FDE, modelling, and panel programming are done, that there truly isn't enough commonality in the skill sets needed to make a good add-on aircraft for each sim and to support/keep them viable through recurring platform update cycles.  That's why there are virtually no add-on aircraft developers that do both.  Each platform has its own ginormous list of idiosyncrasies and special development techniques, and very few folks can devote the time and resources to be successful at both.

So viva la difference, everybody can thrive and keep moving in their own lanes.

 

Probably , but iirc they had already claimed that XP platform is not worth it or something  when the DC was developed and even A2A had said the same thing

30 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Feels political to me. Pretty much like other statements he's made in the past designed to stampede the market in a certain directions......

PMDG certainly seem to have a certain power over their customers, in that where they go their users will follow (and will likely be willing to purchase their old addons again). I do expect this announcement to have repercussions for other addon developers on P3D as users start to lose interest (I do believe PMDG have this influence for P3D/FSX, but they have almost 0 for X-Plane users).

In the case of X-Plane, it was a failed experiment and they lacked the expertise to make it work. PMDG were never able to admit being at fault and just blamed the simulator for having too many shortcomings etc. Others have clearly been able to take better advantage of the simulator and understand far better its internals. I wish them good luck on the new simulator, but I'm quite sure X-Plane will survive without them.

1 hour ago, w6kd said:

That's why there are virtually no add-on aircraft developers that do both.  Each platform has its own ginormous list of idiosyncrasies and special development techniques, and very few folks can devote the time and resources to be successful at both.

There are quite a few, Carenado, JustFlight, etc... They're only GA aircraft, but seems these guys have this skill well honed (JustFlight even have AF2 and FSW products). We're seeing similar with scenery now, e.g EGPH Edinburgh by Orbx was released for both simulators at the same time, and it's a case of getting your workflow as sim agnostic as possible, and this is where I guess these companies win.

 

 

@tonywob

Well said:

Bob

55 minutes ago, tonywob said:

In the case of X-Plane, it was a failed experiment and they lacked the expertise to make it work. PMDG were never able to admit being at fault and just blamed the simulator for having too many shortcomings etc. Others have clearly been able to take better advantage of the simulator and understand far better its internals. I wish them good luck on the new simulator, but I'm quite sure X-Plane will survive without them.

There are quite a few, Carenado, JustFlight, etc... They're only GA aircraft, but seems these guys have this skill well honed (JustFlight even have AF2 and FSW products). We're seeing similar with scenery now, e.g EGPH Edinburgh by Orbx was released for both simulators at the same time, and it's a case of getting your workflow as sim agnostic as possible, and this is where I guess these companies win.

Justflight is more of a retailer than a developer when it comes to XPlane--they are marketing add-ons made by other developers (e.g. Thranda Design).  And I'd venture that Carenado has different teams working on their XPlane line than the ones working on their P3D/FSX birds.  The telltale is that they sell add-ons for both, but they don't tend to produce the same add-on for both...the new Carenado B120, for example, is for ESP-based sims only.

I don't think PMDG were "at fault" so much as they discovered for themselves that XPlane development was going to take a lot of resources--probably more than they anticipated--to make it work and to support it going forward, and they decided that they'd be better served to focus on what they know and already do best.

LR and PMDG don't have enough history together for either to depend at all on the other.  Their respective successes or failures will come independently.

Regards

 

On 11/7/2019 at 6:00 PM, Colonel X said:

I think "we failed miserably" would be an honest evaluation of their X-Plane development. Develop a buggy plane nobody asked for and then state the market ain't there? Real story: they finally realised you can't code for X-Plane using MS Excel. God what a sad bunch. Talking about their development as if it were NASA, give me a break.

That and they priced the dc6 at a non realistic price point....

It's almost like they wanted an excuse to not develop for XP. 

Well, I never really forgave them having "left me with my pants down" when they quited supporting Fly!2 after I had invested on the 767 and 757, jumping into fs9 only...

But I did miss a PMDG-quality product ( airliner ) in X-Plane.

Well, I can only wish them good luck with their new MFS route, which, I believe, most other developers are eager to follow too.

Interestingly, I often see XP community members expressing their will for some MSFS / P3D developers to migrate or also embrace XP, but I've never seen the opposite. Now, it would be great if some XP developers could consider MFS given the announced changes to their flight model, after they get an idea about what it really will allow them for.

If I were, say, FF, or X-Aviation, I would ask for a copy, for entering Alpha program, and try to evaluate the true possibilities that platform will make available. I am sure their products for MFS could also turn into success. Same applies to the many top freeware developers ( like the Zibbo team ). Why not ?

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by jcomm

18 hours ago, w6kd said:

And I'd venture that Carenado has different teams working on their XPlane line than the ones working on their P3D/FSX birds.  The telltale is that they sell add-ons for both, but they don't tend to produce the same add-on for both...the new Carenado B120, for example, is for ESP-based sims only.

As I understand it, Carenado develops their aircraft for FSX/P3D as the primary market. Then they hand off the 3D models, textures, and sound files to Thranda for X-Plane conversion, where the flight model and systems modeling are done from scratch in Planemaker and plugin coding.

We don't get them all. The selection for conversion seems to depend on anticipated market popularity, which is reasonable. I'm waiting for a conversion of the Beech 18, which is one of my favorite aircraft and shouldn't be difficult to convert since the systems are basic. But maybe it's not considered popular enough for conversion to XP. 

15 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

That and they priced the dc6 at a non realistic price point....

It's almost like they wanted an excuse to not develop for XP. 

Unrealistic price point? Just curious what in your opinion would be a realistic price point?

8 hours ago, jcomm said:

Interestingly, I often see XP community members expressing their will for some MSFS / P3D developers to migrate or also embrace XP, but I've never seen the opposite.

jcomm

It is because MSFS / P3D is well represented in nearly ever category of addons more than they are in X plane. So the desire to add more addons to an already over crowded market it pointless.

The interest has also been out of curiosity is to how well an Aircraft it will perform in the X-plane environment when it comes to flight modelling more so than other way around. 

8 hours ago, jcomm said:

Same applies to the many top freeware developers ( like the Zibbo team ). Why not ?

Zibo will not be able to do that because of the design and coding that is tied to the default aircraft in X-plane which he doesn't own. And beside, what would that be of any interest in that when you already have PMDG, isn't that enough?

1 hour ago, dbw1 said:

Unrealistic price point? Just curious what in your opinion would be a realistic price point?

At this point? $10 for sympathy or freeware.

 

On 11/8/2019 at 5:19 PM, Colonel X said:

Well I'll just assume you're otherwise only reading Harvard dissertations and take it as a compliment.

Wrong, but well played.

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by Bjoern

I won't deny PMDG the quality of their products, but what always turned me off was the (as mentioned earlier) arrogance and pretentiousness of their online personalities. I never got that from Flight Factor, or any of the other higher end X-Plane aircraft developers. There was still a feeling for the love of the hobby, even if it the products are for-profit. I've mentioned before that I'll be switching over to MSFS when it comes out, but it's not out of malice for the X-Plane platform. In fact, I'll be keeping an eye out for the eventual XP12. But the X-Plane community is still the better of the two major arms of the flight sim hobby. It represents, to me, something that got lost along the way to over-commercialization in the ESP-based side of things. There's still a vibrant and healthy freeware community and a sort of maverick vibe that just feels more organic and natural. I dunno... hard to articulate it, I guess. 

53 minutes ago, JonRD463 said:

It represents, to me, something that got lost along the way to over-commercialization in the ESP-based side of things. There's still a vibrant and healthy freeware community and a sort of maverick vibe that just feels more organic and natural. I dunno... hard to articulate it, I guess. 

I think its called passion which you see more on the X-plane side that emanates from the very top.