7 hours ago, Cruachan said:

... I sense what may have been a deliberate intention to undermine the 3rd Party Community by timing the start of their marketing campaign ...

 

Would you share your thoughts on why MS / Asobo would do that?

Isn't any 3rd party addon that makes MSFS even more appealing also a win for MS / Asobo? Why would they consider the 3rd party community a competitor or a threat that needs to be undermined?

Edited November 20, 20196 yr by RALF9636

9 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Alan,

Maybe you are right, who knows? I certainly don’t nor do the 3PDs. All we are seeing thus far are the effects of MS/ASOBO’s marketing decisions. 

My hope is that at some point soon we will receive some official clarification so that we can finally draw a line under this debate. Is that really too much to ask or expect?

Regards,

Mike

Not what « we »are seeing, Mike, what « you »are seeing. I don’t see anything. Nor most of us. We do hear rumors and read the bitter posts of two small dev ranting about the SDK, one of whom having never released any FS product AFAIK.

Why, in Heavens, the FS team should clarify anything fot what is ultimately your peace  of mind ? They have made connection with 60 developers, or so they said, isn’t that enough ?

Edited November 20, 20196 yr by domkle

I think it has been mentioned before, but how would the 3PDs benefit if Microsoft had kept the new sim totally secret until just before launch? Why would letting the 3PDs continue to develop new stuff for a sim that will be old hat be good for them, and then kill their sales for a whole product cycle when they might have already committed resources and paid costs based on something that is immediately useless?

Microsoft cannot just say, hello developers, a new sim is coming and here are all the details you'll need, but please don't tell anyone else. They can't do that because it takes just 1 person to open their mouth (which they WILL do) and Microsoft's marketing is then forced down a timeline that other people have dictated, not themselves.

They have already mentioned that they've been working on this for years. If their plan was to kill off other sims and a big chuck of the 3PDs then they could have announced FS2020 2 years ago. Instead they did a VERY good job at keeping it quiet until ~1 year before release and are still getting canned for it.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, because someone with very few actual facts will make some assumptions, assume the worst and start pointing fingers.

Besides, there are no third parties without Microsoft. People tend to forget about that. And no, it's not an equal relationship. The lack of a Flight simulator means no third parties, while the lack of third parties doesn't necessary mean the lack of a flight simulator.

They are in contact with third parties, they are developing a SDK, they mentioned the importance of third parties numerous times in  interviews with the community too. If they didn't give a word not allowed about them, none of this would have happened

4 hours ago, byork said:

At FS2Crew, we've noticed no real significant difference in sales activity.  People like "new", and addons give them that feeling.

People are still going to be using P3D and FSX for a another solid 12 months probably until FS2020 is released, and then there will be another wait period while developers deal with the release version of FS2020.  How long that will be who knows...

FS2020 will no doubt nuke P3D.  X-Plane I suspect will be relegated back to what it originally was... a niche app for people who like fiddling with aerodynamics.  So say a prayer for the X-Plane missionaries on these forums...

All in all though, we're very happy about FS2020.  What we always wanted most is a single sim to rule them all, rather dealing with a fractured marketplace.  And it looks like FS2020 will give us that.

Bryan,
You don't think this is a bit harsh??? 

In their current form i believe you may well be right, but, and this is a BIG but, we have no idea what the new versions of those platforms are going to be like.  

For me the good news is that, both P3D and XPlane are very very well aware of what the new competition appears to offer. I think those devs would be absolute idiots to offer their new platforms in a form that does not come close to MSFS.  I am hoping that we are ALL going to be pleasantly surprised in the near future. I am going to stress the word "hoping"

I am very pleased (as a customer) that you are not feeling the immediate effects of this new platform. I fear, however, you are in a minority. 

In summary, I sympathize with the Developers who have give their "be all and and end all" constantly over the past years. Obviously, there have been financial gains to varying degrees. The "bless you for your efforts"  Freeware guys will carry on relentlessly and not be financially effected and will continue to be appreciated by many. The developers making borderline profits, and we do not definitively, know who they are, are the ones who are going to suffer financially, despite their enthusiasm, and very probably, despite the quality and complexity of their current and past products,

I believe, as you obviously do, that, despite MSFS2020, the expected new P3D and the new XPlane with Vulkan, FS2004, FSX and FSX-SE (look at the latest Eaglesoft offering) and P3Dv1-4 will continue to have their devotees for whatever reason. 

Given the lead times and the future release of MSFS (????) I think that both P3D and XPlane have a time based life line in which to put the finishing touches to their new platforms. Unlike you, I don't believe and fervently hope that nobody is going to be "nuked"

Unfortunately, the only perceived victims in this whole scenario are the "borderline profit developers",  Everyone else, I think is going to be a winner, regardless of the platform each of us follow.

As the OP said, "spare a thought for the developers who do not make it through this wait for ALL of the new platforms.

Regards

Tony

 

6 hours ago, MatthewS said:

And climate change is not real either

Well you got that bit right.

A post I contributed in the French interview thread which seems relevant to be added here. Thisis what Sébastien said about how they see outsiders involvment. 

 

Edited November 20, 20196 yr by domkle

2 hours ago, himmelhorse said:

As the OP said, "spare a thought for the developers who do not make it through this wait for ALL of the new platforms.

I really don't understand that, why should we as customer function like a charity or bank? Sure, you'll always have people who will support a developer (even with donations) but you can't expect that most of us do the same. Like others said, that's how economics work and if they can't adapt then that's not our fault.

49 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

Well you got that bit right.

I do hope you realize that he was joking?

5 hours ago, himmelhorse said:

Bryan,
You don't think this is a bit harsh??? 

In their current form i believe you may well be right, but, and this is a BIG but, we have no idea what the new versions of those platforms are going to be like.  

For me the good news is that, both P3D and XPlane are very very well aware of what the new competition appears to offer. I think those devs would be absolute idiots to offer their new platforms in a form that does not come close to MSFS.  I am hoping that we are ALL going to be pleasantly surprised in the near future. I am going to stress the word "hoping"

I am very pleased (as a customer) that you are not feeling the immediate effects of this new platform. I fear, however, you are in a minority. 

In summary, I sympathize with the Developers who have give their "be all and and end all" constantly over the past years. Obviously, there have been financial gains to varying degrees. The "bless you for your efforts"  Freeware guys will carry on relentlessly and not be financially effected and will continue to be appreciated by many. The developers making borderline profits, and we do not definitively, know who they are, are the ones who are going to suffer financially, despite their enthusiasm, and very probably, despite the quality and complexity of their current and past products,

I believe, as you obviously do, that, despite MSFS2020, the expected new P3D and the new XPlane with Vulkan, FS2004, FSX and FSX-SE (look at the latest Eaglesoft offering) and P3Dv1-4 will continue to have their devotees for whatever reason. 

Given the lead times and the future release of MSFS (????) I think that both P3D and XPlane have a time based life line in which to put the finishing touches to their new platforms. Unlike you, I don't believe and fervently hope that nobody is going to be "nuked"

Unfortunately, the only perceived victims in this whole scenario are the "borderline profit developers",  Everyone else, I think is going to be a winner, regardless of the platform each of us follow.

As the OP said, "spare a thought for the developers who do not make it through this wait for ALL of the new platforms.

Regards

Tony

 

A lot of developers may go a way for a while.

But when FS2020 is released, it's going to be a new gold rush.

And especially with X-Box...  I'm trying to think about an X-Box version of FS2Crew.

It excites me and terrifies me at the same time 😉

But I stand by my words... except for a few hold outs, X-Plane and P3D in my view are gonna be history in 12 plus months.

But for the next 12 months or so, they're all we have.  And people will continue to enjoy them. 

 

1 hour ago, simtom said:

I do hope you realize that he was joking?

I do. And the joke inferred that climate change is real.

1 hour ago, byork said:

A lot of developers may go a way for a while.

But when FS2020 is released, it's going to be a new gold rush.

And especially with X-Box...  I'm trying to think about an X-Box version of FS2Crew.

It excites me and terrifies me at the same time 😉

But I stand by words... except for a few hold outs, X-Plane and P3D in my view are gonna be history in 12 plus months.

But for the next 12 months or so, they're all we have.  And people will continue to enjoy them. 

 

I cant remember XBOX supporting Mods for games. FS2CREW for XBOX would be a MOD if not officially licensed to my understanding and sold as a DLC

 

Btw: Good to see you bringing your stuff to FS2020

25 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

I do. And the joke inferred that climate change is real.

Not to get too far off topic, but I'm so glad to hear you say that.  How people can be in denial...

Now back to our regularly scheduled … you know...stuff.

16 minutes ago, andyjohnston.net said:

Not to get too far off topic, but I'm so glad to hear you say that.  How people can be in denial...

 

Let's not go there, gentlemen - you know very well that any thread that touches on this topic will be shut down, and this particular thread is too valuable to lose. We're here to discuss aviation and computers, two domains that have no connection to facts or science.  Respect those boundaries.

10 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

. We're here to discuss aviation and computers, two domains that have no connection to facts or science.

What?  They don't?

31 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

Let's not go there, gentlemen - you know very well that any thread that touches on this topic will be shut down, and this particular thread is too valuable to lose. We're here to discuss aviation and computers, two domains that have no connection to facts or science.  Respect those boundaries.

I second that. 

21 minutes ago, andyjohnston.net said:

What?  They don't?

Maybe Alan was joking, who knows  ?