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Urmel81

Aerosoft A330 professional not really compatible with AI!

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, DaWu said:

Well Aerosoft banned me after I critized that their planes are not able to fly with higher rates than 4x. They called me a liar and stated that no AC can do this while simultanesly I was flawlessly flying my pmdg 777 with 16x over the atlantic. Once a fan I am done with these clowns. Reading this stuff about the 330 does not even surprise me.

Well, thats very interesting. I just reviewed all warnings in our ststem for the past  30 days and the only bans I see are two for double accounts and two for behavior that would be unacceptable anywhete in flight sim. I did this via my phone, so I suppise I could have missed it, but I usually see our moderator activity daily and I don't recall seeing such a ban.

Regardless, this boils down to a knowledge issue. As far as I remember the PMDG aircraft you mentioned uses a customer time accelerator, not time acceleration via P3D. Before the custom time acceleration, PMDG also advertised up to go x4 time acceleration just as other complex third party airlines do. You don't have to take my word for this, it is in their pre-custom time acceleration documentation or you could simply ask Rob, Ryan, or any of their staff about this. My point is that its not an apples to apples comparison.

If you still believe you were banned, and it was unjust, feel free to PM me the details and I'll look into it.

Edited by DaveCT2003

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22 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Well, thats very interesting. I just reviewed all warnings in our ststem for the past  30 days and the only bans I see are two for double accounts and two for behavior that would be unacceptable anywhete in flight sim. I did this via my phone, so I suppise I could have missed it, but I usually see our moderator activity daily and I don't recall seeing such a ban.

Regardless, this boils down to a knowledge issue. As far as I remember the PMDG aircraft you mentioned uses a customer time accelerator, not time acceleration via P3D. Before the custom time acceleration, PMDG also advertised up to go x4 time acceleration just as other complex third party airlines do. You don't have to take my word for this, it is in their pre-custom time acceleration documentation or you could simply ask Rob, Ryan, or any of their staff about this. My point is that its not an apples to apples comparison.

If you still believe you were banned, and it was unjust, feel free to PM me the details and I'll look into it.

I didnt use custom time acceleration. I hit R and then pushed it to 16x without any problems. I expected to be able to do this with the 320 but it didn’t work. The plane loses control. I could expect something as an answer like „sorry but we are not able to do it“ but I can’t accept your devs calling me out that I am dreaming, halicunating and lying cos it’s impossible to go higher than 16x. Still laughing...yes curves may be wonky and require a manual decrease for the time it takes to change course. But flying 350nm at Crz Level in a straight line is mandatory to be able to do with 16x for people with a real life and it works in every frickin 3pd addon BUT aerosoft.


Lukas Dalton

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DaWu said:

Well Aerosoft banned me after I critized that their planes are not able to fly with higher rates than 4x. They called me a liar and stated that no AC can do this while simultanesly I was flawlessly flying my pmdg 777 with 16x over the atlantic. Once a fan I am done with these clowns. Reading this stuff about the 330 does not even surprise me.

 

Sir,

I have some serious problems with your accusations.

1. There is not one single thing in your Aerosoft Forums account that shows you have receieved a single warning or any administrative action whatsoever, including a ban.  I suppose this is just a knowledge issue, maybe you're simply not familiar with how the Aerosoft forum software works, which is exactly the same software as used here at AVSIM.

2. Time Acceleration.  Again, I believe this is a knowledge issue.  As far as I recall, the PMDG aircraft you cited uses a custom time accelerator built into their software.  The Airbus has a price tag ofg less than half the aircraft you cited, and if you owned the another Airbus professional product then it's even less.  At that cost, we were not able to build in a custom time accelerator.

Additionally, those who have been in the flight sim community for several years know all too well that complex airliners usually advertise nothing greater than x4 time acceleration.  PMDG did this as well with their entire line prior to implementing their custom time accelerator.  That said, in testing I have seen time acceleration work up to x8 though at present we had to implement some additional logging to help track down an elusive issue.

So the statement from Aerosoft is indeed accurate, advertising x4 time acceleration is standard for airliners when it's done via P3D.

Again, there has been no administration action take with your account (same username as here).

 

Best wishes.

 

Edited by DaveCT2003
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The ban was on Facebook not in the forums. My bad I have mistaken that. For commenting that I will not buy it with 4x limitations. 

And again I never used the managed acceleration feature. I used the built in P3D feature which may be not recommended or advertised but worked flawlessly nonetheless


Lukas Dalton

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Posted (edited)

I've seen very similar issue waaay back to LOCK-ON 1.02, it seems the aircraft's control will "reset" to 0 at FPS glitches, which the 0 there is full pitch down and full bank left....

I'm not a code expert, but that kind of design doesn't seems very... aerospace engineering.

Even old plane's Autopilot from 60s will try to hold the control steady when ILS signal became unstable or losing during auto approach, rather than try something fancy.

I think that's what AS330 lack of, hold steady when glitching happens, and carry on when FPS is back.

Edited by C2615

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15 minutes ago, DaWu said:

I didnt use custom time acceleration. I hit R and then pushed it to 16x without any problems. I expected to be able to do this with the 320 but it didn’t work. The plane loses control. I could expect something as an answer like „sorry but we are not able to do it“ but I can’t accept your devs calling me out that I am dreaming, halicunating and lying cos it’s impossible to go higher than 16x. Still laughing...yes curves may be wonky and require a manual decrease for the time it takes to change course. But flying 350nm at Crz Level in a straight line is mandatory to be able to do with 16x for people with a real life and it works in every frickin 3pd addon BUT aerosoft.

It's been a few years, but I seem to recall PMDG not recommending anything higher than 4x with the 777.  

The fact that you got it to work at 16x is fine, but I'm just telling you what I remember them saying about going above 4x.


Rhett

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8 minutes ago, Mace said:

It's been a few years, but I seem to recall PMDG not recommending anything higher than 4x with the 777.  

The fact that you got it to work at 16x is fine, but I'm just telling you what I remember them saying about going above 4x.

yes thats true. I know they dont recommecnd it but time is valuable 😉


Lukas Dalton

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7 minutes ago, DaWu said:

The ban was on Facebook not in the forums. My bad I have mistaken that. For commenting that I will not buy it with 4x limitations. 

And again I never used the managed acceleration feature. I used the built in P3D feature which may be not recommended or advertised but worked flawlessly nonetheless

Lukas,

I didn't see your post on Facebook, truth be told I don't monitor our Facebook account for no other reason than I just don't have the time.  I'm not certain, but last I knew only one person had adminstrative access to our Facebook account, and that's my friend Mathijs Kok.  I'll tell you something I really shouldn't say... Mathijs hates (and I mean he HATES) anyone getting banned.  I'm not kidding.  About a year ago he told his moderation staff that he should be the only one who bans people, and if they DID ban someone they had better have a perfect reason for doing so.  I'll tell you another secret.  I hate seeing people get banned more than Mathijs does, and if I'm the one banning someone then I consider it a failure on my part to have worked with the person.  I tell you, I'm just a sincere person who cares deeply about flight simulation, our community, and the people in it, and I bet if you spent some time reading my posts here and in the Aerosoft forums  you'd be hard pressed to come to any other conclusion.  I've been a part of this community since the earlier 1980's, back when we used Bulletin Board systems and (as I was reminded earlier today) Compuserve and AOL.

Flight simulation has been an important part of my life since i stepped through the door and I've made lasting friends who have traveled from other countries to stay at my home (plus yeah, they like Florida and my pool, so it's hard to figure out if they come for that or to see me... lol).  I have spent the past 15 years working and helping flight simmers from around the globe and roughly 11 years ago I began working with many of the our leading developers including Aerosoft as I continued to help people here and elsewhere.

Here is what I know. Regardless of whether it's Rob's PMDG forum, John's ORBX forum, Aerosoft's, Majestic, or most any other developer, if you behave badly then something is going to happen. But if you treat developers with common courtesy then they'll do their very best to help you or educate  you about their product.  But once a developer has said "that's the way it is" you, me, and everyone else has to accept that.  We don't have to like it, but if that's how the software is then all we can do is respectfully voice our opinion and hope it gets changed.  Get angry and pitch a fit, especially publicly, then the developer isn't going to care what you have to say.

Aerosoft has taken some lumps in this thread, but I'll tell you that much of that are actually misunderstandings or knowledge issues - like 90% of the things I see go sideways in our hobby.  I don't usually bother to correct knowledge issues here at AVSIM because I'm forbidden by my CEO to engage in technical support here, but post in our forums and me or our moderators there are their to help along with sincerity, good will and respect, not to mention that each one of our team there is hand picked and possess the most impressive knowledge of flight simulators and addons products I have ever seen.  I'm not exaggerating.  Look, the two finest airliners ever developed for desktop sim in the almost 40 years I've been doing this is the Majestic Dash 8 Q400 Professional and the Leonardo MaddogX, and I don't believe that any long term highly experienced pilot or flight simmer would dream of arguing that.  I have long been a part of both of those teams, even before I was asked to join Aerosoft. And I'm telling you that the Aerosoft Tech Support team are truly giants in the world of flight sim tech support.  Sure, they make mistakes, but they often only have text to go on and it's issues are routinely not explained very well (which we understand).  I know these guys personally and they are really and truly wonderful people who really love helping flight simmers resolve issues.  In fact, here's a neat statistic.  About 1/3 of our tech support cases don't involve our software, the problem is either with Windows and associated software or FSX/P3D.

Now look, the Aerosoft Airbus is not a $160 Airbus Product.  We know that, and we didn't design it as such.  We designed a product at a price point that was affordable for the largest number of people, one that modeled normal operations. Now the A330 is early access and our developers are back from the holidays and working hard to bring this aircraft up to snuff.  The A318/A319/A320/A321 have just received a good update with a much larger one to come. This isn't much different than any other developer, though I will admit we are a little slower than we should be, but as a professional technical program manager for the US Navy ( Combat Systems) I'll tell you that developing such a project with a price point that we set is an enormously challenging endevor and several of us argued for a higher cost (not profit) to enable our speeding some things up, but our leadership stayed the course to provide these products at an affordable price to the flight sim community. So, takes a little longer, but they always deliver.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience on our Facebook page, I am.  I don't want anyone to have anything but a positive experience with our company.  But as a well meaning realist I have to acknowledge that no person or company can make 100% of it's customers happy, especially when there is such a wide range for levels of knowledge about our hobby.  Shoot, I'd say that half of my time is spent educating people, which is something that I enjoy (especially because my wife won't let me educate her about anything... the married guys here know exactly what I'm talking about... lol).  At my center I am nothing more than a long term flight simmer who loves flight simulation and loves flight simmers.  But I also abhor bad behavior and I loathe seeing it in our hobby - makes the everyone including the person writing it look bad, especially to those new folks looking into flight simulation.

I know, it's a long winded post. But I just want to say one more thing.  If Aerosoft was a bad company or had bad products, I wouldn't be there.  It's not like I don't already have a home with the very best developers in our community. The Airbus Professional Products are about to come into their own, and I just spent some serious time helping to make our Connected Flight Deck amazing (though scheduling is wicked right now so I can't say when our sever move and software update will occur, but I pushed VERY hard for this month).

What would I like to see?  I'd love to see us all just step back, get rid of the personal frustration and needless conflicts, and be flight simmers who are good to one another!  There is far more that unites us than separates us.

My sincere best wishes to everyone.

 

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Posted (edited)

Dave, with the technical competance ofyou and other developers not questioned it may be time they should think of trying to convince customers in the same way they use to convince their wives rather than just coming from a position of superior knowledge (which you and others most probably have).  

I have learnt thingsa from this thread which I never would have if it had been left to the publishers,, this has helped explain other behavior and will of course influence my future purchases of both hardware and software which have of necesity slowed down due to exchange rate changes which mean that my bsic costs have increased so that I have less for simming.

 

Edited by harrry

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I am personally sorry to see Dave forced to come and justify himself here.
No doubts that you are an honest and kind person Dave, as well as Mathijs.

Let's focus on the product and forget individuals.

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Best regards,
David Roch
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On 1/4/2020 at 7:38 PM, DrumsArt said:

Instead to disengage the AP, you can also just pause the simu and unpause when all is stable.

That's fine and dandy provided that you're in front of your PC when the stutters start.

 

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David Roch  I would like to say I am not calling Dave to justify himself.  What I am calling for is a little bit of openess and the realisation that what Developers seem to consider Customers making unjustifiable attacks is actually the Customers trying to obtain information on how to get their  product which they paid their money for to work when facts within the knowledge of the insiders remain undisclosed (eg needs 18 fps).  I could prbably enjoy sharing a coffee with most people in this forum with the proviso that to do so with some the topic of flight simulation would have to remain off the table.


Harry Woodrow

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Harry, I wrote my answer before seeing yours 😉


Best regards,
David Roch
Intel 9900K@4.9GHz, Asus Maximus XI Formula, 32Gb G.Skill Trident-Z 4133 CL17, EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING, 3x SSD Samsung 970 Pro M.2, Corsair 1600W PSU & Samsung curved 49" 4K TV monitor@30Hz.

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On 1/2/2020 at 4:54 PM, DaveCT2003 said:

If you're asking about the project I mentioned, I'm under a very tight NDA (which as the Project Manager I actually I wrote... lol) not to discuss the project more than what I've already said.  Obviously we're already looking at MSFS, but we need to see the final product to do a deep dive type technical evaluation. After that we may well pick this project back up.  So, not dead, just on hold for future evaluation.  This is pretty normal on the flight sim development side. Projects get funded for research and sometimes never make it fully into development.  This is precisely the how third party developers helped push flight simulation to the level we now enjoy, and what people rarely get a glimpse of.

Wait... what? You were working on an addon that would make 99% of forum post here obsolete and you put it on hold because of the sim that won't be released for almost a year? Also, if all your claims are true than I'm pretty sure it would be the best selling FS addon of all time. I'm seriously confused 😕

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1 hour ago, Tomaz Drnovsek said:

Wait... what? You were working on an addon that would make 99% of forum post here obsolete and you put it on hold because of the sim that won't be released for almost a year? Also, if all your claims are true than I'm pretty sure it would be the best selling FS addon of all time. I'm seriously confused 😕

Well since as Dave points out, it was himself that wrote the NDA you could ask him to kindy to rewrite it so he could tell us all about it! We all would love to.


David Murden.  MSFS2020   DCS  

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