The new v5 will be running on DX12 vs the old v4. With that being said, do you think that we will see a noticeable performance gain?

With X-Plane 11 recently overhauling its graphics engine to support vulkan, I can surely say that it's a big noticeable difference and I am hoping we will see noticeable gains in performance as well going from v4 to v5. That will determine whether or not I'll make the switch.

54 minutes ago, captain420 said:

The new v5 will be running on DX12 vs the old v4. With that being said, do you think that we will see a noticeable performance gain?

With X-Plane 11 recently overhauling its graphics engine to support vulkan, I can surely say that it's a big noticeable difference and I am hoping we will see noticeable gains in performance as well going from v4 to v5. That will determine whether or not I'll make the switch.

Aaron,  I do believe that I read from a Beta tester, that yes, there is a FPS performance gain, and smoothness.  Who knows...it might just be P3D's 'Vulkan'....:)  Let's hope.

Edited April 13, 20206 yr by Sesquashtoo

I noticed about a 50% difference in XP11.5 between Vulcan and OpenGL.

I think Rob Ainscough reported a 50% to 100% increase in FPS between P3D V4.5 and V5

35 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'm seeing about 90% improvement (apples to apples v4.5 to V5 same settings and add-ons etc.), but a word of caution ... in the ORBX TE areas (GB South, Mid, North, Netherlands) enabling SimObject cast/receive and Building cast/receive shadows with max or very high slider settings can take it's toll on FPS with such high object counts.

Cheers, Rob.

hey, short question: FPS gain with any 3rd party AI tarffic or just default?

5 hours ago, captain420 said:

The new v5 will be running on DX12 vs the old v4. With that being said, do you think that we will see a noticeable performance gain? [...] That will determine whether or not I'll make the switch.

Why? "Serious simmers"® have been explaining us for years that 15 fps is more than enough.

(Yes, I'm sarcastic, and yes I welcome very much the improved performance and smoothness brought by DX12).

Performance gains can be attained in v4, just lower the sliders... this has been the (dreadful) solution since the beginning. The key is, can one have max sliders and excellent performance, yes, you just have to forsake add-on's. This was not a big problem for P3D, XP, and the rest, because it was the norm, but now MSFS pops into the scene.  

I think the performance gains in P3Dv5 will be quickly eliminated by Weather and AI Traffic add-on's, not to mention the v5 point releases which are likely to add FPS killing features.

50 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

the ORBX TE areas (GB South, Mid, North, Netherlands) enabling SimObject cast/receive and Building cast/receive shadows with max or very high slider settings can take it's toll on FPS with such high object counts.

No doubt the sliders in P3Dv5 will have to be reduced as usual 🙄. Yet even a P3Dv5, with all the add-on's today and max sliders, could very well fail to compete in the realism and performance categories, by one using MSFS with no add-on's and max sliders. In other words, performance gains w/o the slider sacrifice may have to be sought in MSFS, if MS/Asobo pull it off well. 

The other part of the equation is hardware - 5 GHz needs to become a distant memory like 12 MHz is. All the flight sim developers can create reality all they want, but as long as we're stuck around 5 GHz, its all for nothing. Also, something needs to happen with the video card industry.

I suppose none of this will matter or be possible if the world does not get back in shape quickly.  

How do you know MSFS will perform with max sliders, its only in alpha and it will take months maybe a year to be released😄

 

3 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'm seeing about 90% improvement (apples to apples v4.5 to V5 same settings and add-ons etc.), but a word of caution ... in the ORBX TE areas (GB South, Mid, North, Netherlands) enabling SimObject cast/receive and Building cast/receive shadows with max or very high slider settings can take it's toll on FPS with such high object counts.

Cheers, Rob.

I'd like to see my fps in ORBX TE London area. If I double my fps I might finally hit 30fps. That would be like getting a new computer.

I saw incredible fps improvement with 11.50b1 Vulkan enabled. But with b3, I still have blurry photo ground textures so I will have to wait a little longer to upgrade to 11.50.

Some people envision pain when testing a new version, I see pleasure.

Edited April 13, 20206 yr by DJJose

1 hour ago, pracines said:

Performance gains can be attained in v4, just lower the sliders... this has been the (dreadful) solution since the beginning. The key is, can one have max sliders and excellent performance, yes, you just have to forsake add-on's. This was not a big problem for P3D, XP, and the rest, because it was the norm, but now MSFS pops into the scene.  

I think the performance gains in P3Dv5 will be quickly eliminated by Weather and AI Traffic add-on's, not to mention the v5 point releases which are likely to add FPS killing features.

No doubt the sliders in P3Dv5 will have to be reduced as usual 🙄. Yet even a P3Dv5, with all the add-on's today and max sliders, could very well fail to compete in the realism and performance categories, by one using MSFS with no add-on's and max sliders. In other words, performance gains w/o the slider sacrifice may have to be sought in MSFS, if MS/Asobo pull it off well. 

The other part of the equation is hardware - 5 GHz needs to become a distant memory like 12 MHz is. All the flight sim developers can create reality all they want, but as long as we're stuck around 5 GHz, its all for nothing. Also, something needs to happen with the video card industry.

I suppose none of this will matter or be possible if the world does not get back in shape quickly.  

I saw 1st hand the improvements going from OpenGL to Vulkan in XPlane 11. It's as if I had upgraded my computer without the expense or the hassle.

If P3D v5 DX12 gives the dramatic fps improvements, then for that alone is worth the upgrade price. I trust Rob!

4 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'm seeing about 90% improvement (apples to apples v4.5 to V5 same settings and add-ons etc.), but a word of caution ... in the ORBX TE areas (GB South, Mid, North, Netherlands) enabling SimObject cast/receive and Building cast/receive shadows with max or very high slider settings can take it's toll on FPS with such high object counts.

Cheers, Rob.

I suggested to JV that they amend all the simobject buildings to noshadowflag so that users could still have add-on airport simobject shadowing without the performance hit of simobject building shadows...don't know whether they actually ever did it?

3 hours ago, pracines said:

Yet even a P3Dv5, with all the add-on's today and max sliders, could very well fail to compete in the realism and performance categories, by one using MSFS with no add-on's and max sliders.

I don't think there is any 'could' about it; MSFS will p*** all over P3D in terms of realism, and it's got nothing to do with looks either, it is because Asobo have actually addressed one of the underlying problems with matters which goes way beyond appearances; one which dates back as far as FS95. Yup, that's right, a problem we've been set up for, the origin of which dates back over a quarter of a Century.

But more than this, Asobo's new effort addresses what is actually two problems with all iterations of ESP-based sims, namely: A) the flight modeling system and what it simulates hasn't changed for years, and B) requiring a stupidly overpowered PC - a sledgehammer to crack a walnut in spite of having graphics which are embarrassing even compared to ten-year-old PC games - because of being centered around the long-gone concept of CPUs constantly getting quicker each year instead of properly utilising the architecture of a modern PC.

We knew all this back before FSX was released of course, but MS wouldn't spend the cash to build on a new foundation. That's why every flight sim forum has a section which is full of comments about how to increase FPS as well as loads of mind-numbingly tedious discussions about 'which hardware should I buy?'

But, it's not all about that of course. Going beyond the sims themselves, what will set P3D apart, at least for quite some time, will be the availability of TPDs which can up its game. So they've got some time, but not much, because in three years all the TPD developers will be all over the new MS sim like a cheap suit. And so will all us lot.

Edited April 13, 20206 yr by Chock

2 hours ago, kurtb said:

How do you know MSFS will perform with max sliders, its only in alpha and it will take months maybe a year to be released😄

 

Yes, those who believe that are dreaming.
No complex software/game can work on all computers with max sliders.
I am even sure MSFS release version will not perform with max settings on today's top-notch hardware.
More Asobo will finalize their product, more they will add functionalities, complexity, new features, and more load on the hardware, so maybe feedback from beta testers after NDA will be removed will cool down some hopes, unfortunately.
 

Edited April 13, 20206 yr by David Roch

6 hours ago, Quasimodo said:

I noticed about a 50% difference in XP11.5 between Vulcan and OpenGL.

I think Rob Ainscough reported a 50% to 100% increase in FPS between P3D V4.5 and V5

Wow...cool!  Can't wait...:)

1 hour ago, Chock said:

I don't think there is any 'could' about it; MSFS will p*** all over P3D in terms of realism, and it's got nothing to do with looks either, it is because Asobo have actually addressed one of the underlying problems with matters which goes way beyond appearances; one which dates back as far as FS95. Yup, that's right, a problem we've been set up for, the origin of which dates back over a quarter of a Century.

But more than this, Asobo's new effort addresses what is actually two problems with all iterations of ESP-based sims, namely: A) the flight modeling system and what it simulates hasn't changed for years, and B) requiring a stupidly overpowered PC - a sledgehammer to crack a walnut in spite of having graphics which are embarrassing even compared to ten-year-old PC games - because of being centered around the long-gone concept of CPUs constantly getting quicker each year instead of properly utilising the architecture of a modern PC.

We knew all this back before FSX was released of course, but MS wouldn't spend the cash to build on a new foundation. That's why every flight sim forum has a section which is full of comments about how to increase FPS as well as loads of mind-numbingly tedious discussions about 'which hardware should I buy?'

But, it's not all about that of course. Going beyond the sims themselves, what will set P3D apart, at least for quite some time, will be the availability of TPDs which can up its game. So they've got some time, but not much, because in three years all the TPD developers will be all over the new MS sim like a cheap suit. And so will all us lot.

Again, good, solid points.  I am looking forward to P3D v5.0, but am not a F-boy of any sim.. Will never be, and if someone comes up with a non-emotional driven 'other take', that works for me.  I'm still buying v5.0, because as I see it, MSFS2020 is months away...maybe because of the Covid-19 Pandemic...over a year(!?!?!?) away, possibly...so...I want a fresh breath of air streaming into my present P3D franchise,...simple as that. When (or if?) MSFS2020 goes actually RTM...I'll buy that as well. Flight simming is a passion of mine. I can't afford the real deal...the license, the plane...and so...if I can get new features tomorrow from my P3D installation...yep...gonna bring that on down from the Internet..and enjoy those features.  You made great impact points, Chock...

Cheers,

Edited April 13, 20206 yr by Sesquashtoo

Yup, I note with not much surprise that we're seeing less and less referrals to the new Asobo sim as MSFS 2020.

Not that I think it ever was officially called that as far as I'm aware, but given the current pandemic and how it is affecting pretty much everything, it would not shock me in the least if it didn't make it out of the door this year. As I noted on another thread of this ilk, P3D V5 doesn't really need to be vastly better than MSFS 2021 (there, I said it 🤣), I should think merely being available will be enough to blow the dust off a lot of people's credit cards.