For once we agreed 100%. I think MSFS and P3D V5 are what we called MVP and let the user do all the QA for you and just build new iteration based on the feedback. 

Rob, I suspect this is definitely true for MSFS. I’m honestly puzzled by the rushed release of V5, though. Perhaps there was more pressure from commercial and military clients that I would have imagined. 

What would have happened to P3D commercial sales (to people like us) if v5 had been released *after* MSFS?  This is the only reason I can think of why it was released as early as it was.

Hook

17 minutes ago, LHookins said:

What would have happened to P3D commercial sales (to people like us) if v5 had been released *after* MSFS?  This is the only reason I can think of why it was released as early as it was.

Hook

I've often wondered what % of sales there is "to people like us" compared to commercial/military clients.  I would image "people like us" clients are but a tiny % at best in $ terms yet probably make the most "noise" with respect to feedback.

Edited July 21, 20205 yr by YMMB

8 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I was assured (by the most reliable resource) P3D V5 was not released because of MSFS.  And I’m certain LM had no prior knowledge of releases dates for MSFS,

They don't have to know the exact release date.  Best guess was for the Christmas buying season for 2020.

And it doesn't address the question of what would have happened if P3Dv5 had been released *after* MSFS.  The earlier they get v5 out to market, the more likely people are to buy it with MSFS on the horizon.

The official company line doesn't always mesh with reality, and what someone in the know can say isn't always the way it actually is.

Hook

Based on all information I have on hand... Prepar3D and MSFS2020 are not competitive products.  At all.  I realize they're both software products that attempt to imitate flight... but they really can't compete very easily.

One is being designed in a manner to explicitly support a game console, the other is being designed to run on high-end computer systems/networks.

One is being designed in a manner to explicitly support complex modifications to it's core behavior, the other is being designed to lock down code into a prohibitive sandbox with extremely limited capabilities.

 

They do NOT compete.  At all.

 

7 minutes ago, WarpD said:

Based on all information I have on hand... Prepar3D and MSFS2020 are not competitive products.  At all.  I realize they're both software products that attempt to imitate flight... but they really can't compete very easily.

One is being designed in a manner to explicitly support a game console, the other is being designed to run on high-end computer systems/networks.

One is being designed in a manner to explicitly support complex modifications to it's core behavior, the other is being designed to lock down code into a prohibitive sandbox with extremely limited capabilities.

 

They do NOT compete.  At all.

 

I'm getting whiplash from some devs saying they're excited about creating for MFS and others saying it's a console game with limited expansion possibilities. 

5 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

I'm getting whiplash from some devs saying they're excited about creating for MFS and others saying it's a console game with limited expansion possibilities. 

Do they all make the same type of product(s)?

13 minutes ago, WarpD said:

Do they all make the same type of product(s)?

I’m referring to devs like Leonardo, PMDG, FSL, etc. making complex airliners.

31 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

I’m referring to devs like Leonardo, PMDG, FSL, etc. making complex airliners.

Maybe they have a "special" agreement with MS and not locked down into a "sandbox" like the others?

I've seen nothing to suggest that MFS is somehow "locked down" for addons vs P3D. The MFS SDK is still a work in progress and likely to be incomplete for a couple of months yet.

Sounds more like some of the slower developers trying to keep folks on P3D for longer so they can continue selling their existing products instead of having to port or newly develop which would cost them money.

Perhaps I'm just cynical (actually I know I am!) but on that note, Mindstar still doesn't support P3Dv4 according to their website?

Edited July 22, 20205 yr by ckyliu

38 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

I've seen nothing to suggest that MFS is somehow "locked down" for addons vs P3D. The MFS SDK is still a work in progress and likely to be incomplete for a couple of months yet.

MSFS is more restrictive. In P3D/FSX, developers can create their own programs (.exe, .dll) outside of the sim and let it interact with it. In MSFS, you will not be able to create external programs like that. It all has to go through Wasm ( https://webassembly.org/ ) and has to run in a closed environment with limited interaction with other software components. 

That's not to say you will not be able to create a complex addon, but you will have to follow a certain route and you will have limited resources. For developers who do a lot of their own simulations outside of P3D, like Majestic, FSL, or Milviz, that's a pretty severe restriction. I am not surprised that hey are exactly the ones who have not confirmed their plans for MSFS yet. I am surprised that PMDG did.

Peter

Thanks @qqwertzde I'd read things like that but I didn't understand the implications until you explained. Basically they have to learn a new way of working/interfacing with the simulator. Hopefully it will lead to a more stable sim though.

Edited July 22, 20205 yr by ckyliu

10 minutes ago, qqwertzde said:

MSFS is more restrictive. In P3D/FSX, developers can create their own programs (.exe, .dll) outside of the sim and let it interact with it. In MSFS, you will not be able to create external programs like that. It all has to go through Wasm ( https://webassembly.org/ ) and has to run in a closed environment with limited interaction with other software components. 

That's not to say you will not be able to create a complex addon, but you will have to follow a certain route and you will have limited resources. For developers who do a lot of their own simulations outside of P3D, like Majestic, FSL, or Milviz, that's a pretty severe restriction. I am not surprised that hey are exactly the ones who have not confirmed their plans for MSFS yet. I am surprised that PMDG did.

Peter

I would say we need to give MSFS a bit more time after release to see how exactly it will let outside apps work with it, we just don't yet fully understand how or what we can do with MSFS going forward.

33 minutes ago, qqwertzde said:

..... For developers who do a lot of their own simulations outside of P3D, like Majestic, FSL, or Milviz, that's a pretty severe restriction....

Peter

Not only because they cannot do it outside but also because they would have to use an interpreted language versus a compiled one.

Karl