So I guess the consensus is that patch 1.9.5 was a step in the right direction?  It didn't really introduce any game breaking bugs and instead, it fixed some very annoying bugs, including the VFR map CTD bug, plus other bugs.

I noticed that Asobo focused mainly on a few key fixes this time, rather than a wide number of fixes.  This was probably a smart strategy for this particular patch, seeing that things were getting unstable and worse with the last several patches.

Having said that, if we want MSFS to make progress, Asobo needs to find a way to bring back the large number of fixes and large number of feature additions in future patches.  Otherwise, the progress will be going at a snail's pace over the next while.  To achieve this, I think Asobo really, really, needs to have the testing team made up of volunteer players ASAP.  The volunteer player testing team, which would be like a beta testing team, can backup Asobo's own internal testing team and root out bugs in patches before they go live.  With a volunteer player testing team, it will allow Asobo to get more aggressive to fix more bugs and add more features in future patches, which will allow the game to make more forward progress.

4 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Having said that, if we want MSFS to make progress, Asobo needs to find a way to bring back the large number of fixes and large number of feature additions in future patches.  Otherwise, the progress will be going at a snail's pace over the next while.  To achieve this, I think Asobo really, really, needs to have the testing team made up of volunteer players ASAP. 

I would vote for a beta (and, maybe, alpha) branch were you can opt in or out, as has been suggested several times. X-Plane and AeroflyFS2 have this and this scheme works pretty well.

Kind regards, Michael

It didn’t introduce any new issues for me and fixed the VFR map ctd, but it wasn’t the most ambitious patch.

Just now, scotchegg said:

It didn’t introduce any new issues for me and fixed the VFR map ctd, but it wasn’t the most ambitious patch.

My guess is, they didn't want to be ambitious in this patch.  Because when they try to fix more things, they break things too (ie. Sensitivity menu bug, VFR map CTD bug, etc).  So their testing team doesn't seem able to catch all the major bugs when they release their patches.

Aside from the core application itself, I was happy to see the updated EGNM Leeds Bradford Airport from Orbx is now available with this patch. Purchased it through the Market Place, downloaded and tried it out this morning w/o any issues.

Edited October 14, 20205 yr by Humble Jim

Honestly, when they did Big patches with some mistakes, we tore them a new one.

Our reaction was essentially the communities demand for smaller, less ambitious patches

As I did try to say in other threads, be careful what you wish for.

It has fixed the avionics shutting off bug. This was a really serious issue which could make the aeroplanes pretty much unusable, so I'm fairly happy with this patch in that it solved that problem. They've still got a lot to do of course, but it'll come.

Edited October 14, 20205 yr by Chock

3 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Honestly, when they did Big patches with some mistakes, we tore them a new one.

Our reaction was essentially the communities demand for smaller, less ambitious patches

As I did try to say in other threads, be careful what you wish for.

Yeah.  I wouldn't want every patch to be like 1.9.5 in the next few years.  Then very little progress will be made.  Asobo needs to pick up the pace of fixes and adding new features.  Just use a beta testing team to help route out bugs and then Asobo can increase the pace of fixes and new features again.

The problem with open BETAs is that so many users have messed up systems and lots of questionable mods. As well as added 3rd party stuff in the mix. Not to mention bad or intermittent internet connections.

So what happens is the developer will be inundated with problem reports that have nothing to do with their software.

I have a dedicated computer for simming, no other games or apps. Only sim apps and their known good 3rd party additions.

I have not really had any big problems with FS2020. Just the obvious ones that have now been fixed or have work arounds. Continuous on switches on the Honeycomb yoke comes to mind, causing the 10 degree increments and avionics clicking off. A few others like the VFR map bug and the USB disconnect CTD, fixed in the first update.

I am having a fantastic time playing with they new sim. I have barely used XP at all since FS2020 launch. I am enjoying making Air Manager work, and use a 4 screen system with great frame rate.

I have never seen a developer be as open and responsive as ASOBO. I think they are doing a fantastic job. This is a completely new sim so I am amazed it works as well as it does. Even Apple has lots of bugs to fix every time there is an update, not to mention MS with new Windows SW. It is the same with CAD/CAM software as well. It is just the nature of the beast.

So IMHO I think ASOBO is doing it right with closed in-house BETA and then frequent updates. It is a refreshing way to do complex development.

1 minute ago, 177B said:

The problem with open BETAs is that so many users have messed up systems and lots of questionable mods. As well as added 3rd party stuff in the mix. Not to mention bad or intermittent internet connections.

So what happens is the developer will be inundated with problem reports that have nothing to do with their software.

I have a dedicated computer for simming, no other games or apps. Only sim apps and their known good 3rd party additions.

I have not really had any big problems with FS2020. Just the obvious ones that have now been fixed or have work arounds. Continuous on switches on the Honeycomb yoke comes to mind, causing the 10 degree increments and avionics clicking off. A few others like the VFR map bug and the USB disconnect CTD, fixed in the first update.

I am having a fantastic time playing with they new sim. I have barely used XP at all since FS2020 launch. I am enjoying making Air Manager work, and use a 4 screen system with great frame rate.

I have never seen a developer be as open and responsive as ASOBO. I think they are doing a fantastic job. This is a completely new sim so I am amazed it works as well as it does. Even Apple has lots of bugs to fix every time there is an update, not to mention MS with new Windows SW. It is the same with CAD/CAM software as well. It is just the nature of the beast.

So IMHO I think ASOBO is doing it right with closed in-house BETA and then frequent updates. It is a refreshing way to do complex development.

It doesn't have to be an "open" beta. It can also be a closed beta.  But Asobo disbanded their beta testing team, or whatever you want to call it, for the release.  That's why they are putting together a new player testing team for the VR patch release.

Also, an "open" beta won't hurt Asobo if they manage it properly.  People can submit bugs but if Asobo sees a lot of people submitting the same bug, that's a hint that something is wrong.  The sensitivity menu bug would have been easily caught by a beta testing team of sufficient size. It's because Asobo's internal testing team isn't covering enough testing scenarios, that's why something like the sensitivity menu bug and A320 left engine bug made it into a patch.

I'm okay with small patches, but I'm not a fan of multi-gigabtye patches that only fix a small number of issues (unless those issues require new graphical assets to fix).

12 minutes ago, 177B said:

The problem with open BETAs is that so many users have messed up systems and lots of questionable mods. As well as added 3rd party stuff in the mix. Not to mention bad or intermittent internet connections.

So what happens is the developer will be inundated with problem reports that have nothing to do with their software.

There was a little bit of talk about further beta testing during the initial Alpha/Beta. At the time there was some mention of having a separate install for such further betas. The intention being obviously to ensure that the main sim was unaffected by changes made in the beta. It could be argued that the network connectivity during installs and patches needs to be greatly improved anyway.

Edited October 14, 20205 yr by SamYeager
Typo

I can get the Longitude up to 36,000ft without the Dolphin Dance so that’s an improvement (still need the problem to go away totally but that wasn’t promised in this patch).  I posted other findings in the official forums.  So to answer the question in this thread ‘Yes’ it’s moving in the right direction.  A very small move but a move the right way just the same.

Edited October 14, 20205 yr by Dillon

Here is a cool experiment to demonstrate how I think Asobo (if they are watching the feedback from everywhere) may be patterning the content of the updates:

I can't give you exact numbers, but the experiment goes something like this:

1. Take 100 red solo cups (no, this is not a drinking game, LOL)
2. Line them up in a long line about one foot apart
3. Fill the 1st one to the brim with water
4. Start a timer
5. Then with no time limit, carefully pour the contents of the 1st cup into the 2nd, and so on
6. Stop the timer, and see how long it took you
7. See how much you have left at the 100th cup
8. Now....start adding time limitations...you MUST be done pouring into that 100th cup before the time is up...this is a hard stop requirement!
9. For an arbitrary checkpoint....see how much water is in the 100th cup after cutting the time limit in half. 🙂

The obvious point of the demonstration is to point out you can do it carefully, get it all right, or do it to a time limit, and miss a lot of things.

There are advantages/disadvantages to both methods.  Asobo, if they want to tailor their update release schedule to the feedback of their customer base, has a tough job.

If you took a survey of all simmers (a perfect-world survey, where every single person asked to respond, responded), you'd probably find just around 1/2 want Asobo to take their time, and get it right, while others want quick patches to fix the major stuff, with the risk of either missing other stuff, or breaking currently-working stuff in the process.

One thing to consider in that survey though.  Happy simmers tend not to fill out surveys....to them...everything is working, and they'd be wasting sim time, stopping to fill out a survey.   Angry simmers on the other hand...will go out of their way to fill out that survey, and run out of characters in the 2000-character-limit free text comment box at the end. 😆
So even the simple task of sending out a survey can't be used as an accurate barometer of how the community is feeling. 😉

Quite the predicament we're putting them in eh?

Should I point out that this is the classic red solo cup half empty, half full scenario? 🤣

 

Edited October 14, 20205 yr by Steve Dra
wording

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

So I guess the consensus is that patch 1.9.5 was a step in the right direction?  It didn't really introduce any game breaking bugs and instead, it fixed some very annoying bugs, including the VFR map CTD bug, plus other bugs.

I noticed that Asobo focused mainly on a few key fixes this time, rather than a wide number of fixes.  This was probably a smart strategy for this particular patch, seeing that things were getting unstable and worse with the last several patches.

Having said that, if we want MSFS to make progress, Asobo needs to find a way to bring back the large number of fixes and large number of feature additions in future patches.  Otherwise, the progress will be going at a snail's pace over the next while.  To achieve this, I think Asobo really, really, needs to have the testing team made up of volunteer players ASAP.  The volunteer player testing team, which would be like a beta testing team, can backup Asobo's own internal testing team and root out bugs in patches before they go live.  With a volunteer player testing team, it will allow Asobo to get more aggressive to fix more bugs and add more features in future patches, which will allow the game to make more forward progress.

whilst i agree that progress is at a snails pace asobo dont need more testers  as they already have over 2 million paid up testers, we are all clearly beta testers, which only reinforces that it was launched well before it was ready, as commented on by many of the partners in this project, still given time and providing M.S. dont pull the plug as they did on FSX we should have a great sim in a years time