Carenado Arrow goes on sale...

[CFIJose 5,485]

54 minutes ago, Dillon said:

I have faith Carenado will improve this model like they've done before but releasing it like this dumbfounding... 

You mean like they've improved the Mooney? 😀

I'm still waiting for the OH panel lighting & EGT to be fixed.

Carenado is still the worst and can't be trusted to improve their fleet with updates.

[Will Fly For Cheese 1,710]

31 minutes ago, DJJose said:

You mean like they've improved the Mooney? 😀

I'm still waiting for the OH panel lighting & EGT to be fixed.

Carenado is still the worst and can't be trusted to improve their fleet with updates.

That was all too true in FSX/ P3D days. The difference was that you could get at the config files and most of the line up had good improvements done over the years. Bert's Seminole was excellent for example. The Flight1 GPS integration, etc, 

I'm sorry to say that in those days Carenado/ Alabeo were notorious for not bothering to roll out updates for their airframes as they'd had your money thank you very much. I suspect little will change with their approach to MSFS.

[Bobsk8 12,848]

My guess is JF is going to wait for the MS update to drop before they launch their Arrow. They probably want to avoid something in the update breaking their brand new aircraft, causing them to have to issue a fix for it. 

[Matchstick 1,902]

2 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

My guess is JF is going to wait for the MS update to drop before they launch their Arrow. They probably want to avoid something in the update breaking their brand new aircraft, causing them to have to issue a fix for it. 

Latest from JF is there still work to do so they won't be releasing till next week.

Should be posting a status update later today.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Matchstick

[Chock 17,769]

2 hours ago, Dillon said:

Chock I have to disagree with you here (and I hate to do that) but this is terrible.  We can somewhat give the 737MAX a pass but those of us who've flown the real thing and looking at what Carenado already has out for MSFS, this is inexcusable.  The Mooney, 182T, and Waco are what you give a pass.  If a developer comes off that and releases a bird that flies like an Atari and/or Commador64 arcade game the community can't look the other way on this one. Carenado has done better with recent offerings, this is just plain disgraceful... 😌

Nobody has to agree with me lol, if you think it sucks, then fair enough, in fact, why not make a video about it for your youtube channel, as I'd certainly welcome your opinion on matters and I know you have some stuff in the pipeline which I'm looking forward to watching. 🙂

Nevertheless, I still I maintain that this thing is not terrible. If I'd found it to be stalling and spinning all over the place or crashing all the time or conking out, or the graphics glitching, or the sound being iffy, then I'd agree with you, but it's not doing that; it's perfectly possible to do circuits and bumps in the thing, or navigate to where you want to go. Now I will agree that it can barely stay in the air and is virtually impossible to trim if you put it on the legacy flight model in MSFS, but on the modern one, it flies around just fine and is easy to land.

Where I also concur, is that it doesn't really make you feel like you are in a PA28; the rudder inputs for example, or rather lack of them required to get it to go in a straight line are not what you find in a PA28, or many other GA singles for that matter; it might be called an Arrow, but the real thing doesn't fly that straight lol. It doesn't shake and rattle about, or sound as noisy as much as I seem to remember the PA28 doing, but then again that might have been just me being in one which needed an overhaul lol.

So in this regard I will certainly agree that it is a bit of a cookie-cutter flight model, but as I say, this is what Carenado does, and I'm making that judgement that I think it is 'okay' based on knowing that's what Carenado does, and knowing that this thing was 20 quid.

I'm not sure what people were expecting if they are surprised by this. Surely people are aware that since A2A were able to sell me a Commanche 250 for 50 quid, a P-51 Mustang for 50 quid, a Spitfire for 50 quid, a Stratocruiser for 60 quid, B-17 for 50 quid etc, there is a reason why I'd pay that when I know I could pay 20 quid for a similar and in some cases at least visually better-looking product from another developer? This too is about expectations and experience of previous products. It's why A2A's Accu-Feel was pretty much a must have for FSX and P3D too, since it would at least allow you to sprinkle some of A2A's magic on lesser offerings.

I don't even like the Bonanza that much as a real life aeroplane, but I bought the A2A one the moment it became available for P3D based on knowing their 250 Comanche was amazingly good (probably the best GA aeroplane there is for a PC sim), and that was for a programme which (ironically) had an ex-payware Carenado Bonanza in it as a default aeroplane.

The confidence born of experience in what A2A does, is similar to the confidence I have in what Carenado does too, albeit with a less flattering conclusion, but it's tempered somewhat by the price difference. So I'm surprised people are saying this thing is not that great in terms of replicating the real thing, when they really should know that's pretty much always been the case with Carenado. Thus when I say I think it is okay, that's considering that, A - it's from Carenado and B - it's coming in at 20 quid.

I'm certainly going to enjoy putting this and the JF one side by side in a youtube review and I have a lot of the prep work for that video ready (Pink Floyd song for the intro 😮) - I'm just awaiting the release of the JF Arrow - but as I did with the a similar two-product video where I compared a Vertx Diamond Twin to a Carenado Diamond Twin, the conclusion might not be as 'lamb to the slaughter' as some people might expect if they think I'm only putting the two side by side as an excuse to berate a less expensive product.

None of this is an attempt to excuse poor workmanship; if Carenado does that, as they did with their frankly absolutely worthless piece of word not allowed Cessna C441 conquest II, then I'll slag them off all day long, and twice on Sundays. And they'll deserve it too. But if they make one of their fun lookalikes which flies around okay and comes in at a low price, then I say good look to them.

It may well be that they've hammered this thing out to beat Just flight to the draw and ride on the publicity a little bit, but as much as I'm a champion for Just Flight and have been for years, I still say that's tough luck for them; Carenado is under no obligation to not exploit a business opportunity, and it's worth bearing in mind that Just Flight is a vendor for a lot of Carenado and Alabeo stuff anyway, so although this one from Carenado is in the MSFS store, JF is still a company which benefits from what Carenado and Alabeo do.

So yeah, anyone can disagree with me if they like, and I expect some people will, but if anyone wants a decent lookalike PA28 with modern avionics for 20 quid and isn't too bothered about it flying exactly like a real PA28, then with that expectation, this thing won't disappoint them.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Chock

[Matchstick 1,902]

4 minutes ago, Chock said:

So yeah, anyone can disagree with me if they like, and I expect some people will, but if anyone wants a decent lookalike PA28 with modern avionics for 20 quid and isn't too bothered about it flying exactly like a real PA28, then with that expectation, this thing won't disappoint them.

So sounds to me like Carenado know the audience who are looking to buy products exclusively from the Marketplace and built something that will work for them ?

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

1 minute ago, Matchstick said:

So sounds to me like Carenado know the audience who are looking to buy products exclusively from the Marketplace and built something that will work for them ?

It is actually getting positive reviews over on the MS forums.

[Chock 17,769]

5 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

So sounds to me like Carenado know the audience who are looking to buy products exclusively from the Marketplace and built something that will work for them ?

Yup, that's Carenado and Alabeo. There's certainly a reason why they've stayed in business and keep on doing what they do. And it's easy to forget sometimes when you hang around Avsim where there are a lot of real-world flyers, that not everyone has 2,000 hours on the real things and could land on a postage stamp in a thunderstorm, so not everyone is hugely bothered by a model not reminding them of that Summer of '69 when they flew a real one to Narnia for the CIA.

2 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

It is actually getting positive reviews over on the MS forums.

As I say, that does not surprise me. If you want a typical Carenado product - i.e. looks pretty and has a very accurate 3D model, flies reasonably well, has magenta line avionics and comes in at a low price - it ticks all those boxes. Carenado knows its target audience.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Chock

[Matchstick 1,902]

1 minute ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

It is actually getting positive reviews over on the MS forums.

I suspect (as is said above) that there's nothing wrong with it as a new, good looking aircraft that is fine to fly for someone who isn't looking for an accurate model of a real Arrow,

[regis9 4,037]

Was never a fan of Carenado in P3D but I spend a good chunk of my time in the Mooney and Seminole in MSFS.  Maybe not perfect but good fun for relaxing GA flying and they function as needed for me.

I’d probably buy the arrow too if it wasn’t for the JF version dropping shortly.

At the end of the day they’re not A2A, never will be, so I always find it odd to read criticisms of the aircraft that seem to have those expectations.

[ckyliu 1,749]

Several posters here I can paraphrase "I've had 3 Carenado products and they've all been terrible", are you guys just glutton for punishment, didn't you learn the first time? 🤣

Carenado and Alabeo have always been the the puppy factory of aircraft addons; looks pretty, systems same as default aircraft, often require a user mod before they fly reasonably, and chock full of obvious bugs only some of which will be fixed before they move on to the next project. As long as people keep buying the products at that quality level, they will keep making and supporting them as they have be doing, and all the moaning (of which there is a lot) is for nothing because many of those same people still buy more! Several folks here saying "well I might just buy it this weekend as something to do even though I probably won't rate it" actually disadvantages flight simmers by disincentivising quality developers from making aircraft already being done by the "puppy factories" .

By all means if you're desperate for an Arrow go ahead and get your fingers burnt with Carenado again, but the smart money says sit and wait a couple of weeks for the JustFlight Arrow and see some head-to-head comparisons. Personally I'm very confident the JustFlight product will be a lot better for not much more outlay. I would only entertain a Carenado/Alabeo purchase if I was absolutely in love with the type and user feedback was favourable.

Edited March 5, 2021 by ckyliu

[CFIJose 5,485]

18 minutes ago, regis9 said:

Was never a fan of Carenado in P3D but I spend a good chunk of my time in the Mooney and Seminole in MSFS.  Maybe not perfect but good fun for relaxing GA flying and they function as needed for me.

I’d probably buy the arrow too if it wasn’t for the JF version dropping shortly.

At the end of the day they’re not A2A, never will be, so I always find it odd to read criticisms of the aircraft that seem to have those expectations.

Criticism is warranted. Here's an example, you buy a FORD for the price of a Tesla. Their fleet have always been overpriced. Nothing has changed with this latest release. They are still overpriced, buggy, add-ons. Most of us know this and we still buy the add-ons Carenado releases. 😀

[Ixoye 1,837]

If it's in pair with the Mooney I think it's ok for 20 bucks, I'm personally waiting for the the JF version, but who knows, if the JF Arrow is delayed I might buy it just to fly something new this weekend.

Is there any video review up about it yet?

Edited March 5, 2021 by Ixoye

[Treetops45 1,083]

10 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Mine does, unless you turned it off, but the airframe  icing is way over done. I think that is an MSFS 2020 thing, however.  

I think its Asobo.

I flew an XCub in PNG at 15C & got icing at 8,500' when I flew into some cloud, at 15C.

T45

[Treetops45 1,083]

2 hours ago, hanhamreds said:

I’m still trying to get the Carenado Waco off the ground without repeated ventures across farmer Bills crops - I’ll wait for the JF version me thinks.

Presumably that's the left hook?

There was a 'fix' where you start slow, hold in full up elevator to glue the tailwheel to the ground,  ease the power in & around the magical 40 kia make sure you are easing right rudder in & taking out some of the elevator. Trick is to get up enough speed where the rudder authority comes in. I can't quite straight line it, but have no trouble staying on the runway with a bit of a bobble to the left before lift off.

T45