On 3/18/2021 at 9:07 PM, GoranM said:

Streamline your install.  Get rid of non-essentials.  Avoid freeware plugins (the authors have no obligation to support them due to them being freeware.  It's pretty much a "be happy with what you got" scenario).

I only have Gizmo, required my many X-Aviation products, Avitab, and yes, I don't run freeware plugins, as you said, too much headache and every time XP updates, some of these will fail, but it's freeware.  My point of fixing XP11 and go slow on 12 is simple, unless there is a real hard reason to break everything to be in 12, why causing so much disruptions with a new version? Unless the business model is to introduce new version introduce new issues, trigger costly update.  Having said that, if there is a new version, I will be parsing and watching if the new features are that break through and justify the time and cost. Otherwise, I will just ignore it and stay where I am.  

@fogboundturtle

I believe you're taking a few shortcuts. Please allow me to further help you finding the relevant information:

There is a bug in FS2020, so much so they've said in their Q&A they've well noted the bug and will attempt to correcting it:
Honeycomb Aeronautical Partnership -- Please fix input bugs - Bugs & Issues / Hardware - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

Please understand it is not because your hardware is working, because you've adapted its configuration to workaround FS2020 bugs with inputs, that it is compatible (to my knowledge, you either disable all switches so that FS2020 doesn't trigger the bug, or you use external tools to interpose the input and FS2020. There is no other way otherwise because it is a bug, the very same found in FS9 and for which back then. Pete Dowson even offered a workaround in FSUIPC). This is a plain and simple bug very easy to understand: as long as 1 FS input is held, all other inputs are accelerated. Plain and simple. The Honeycomb switches are implemented in such a way FS2020 read a continuous input, therefore, it accelerate any other non-related input as a consequence. And you don't even need a honeycomb to trigger the bug: just keep a key depressed on your keyboard, and the same bug is happening.

As for the SDK, you're probably misunderstanding the technicality of the problem:

You can't fly Reality XP GTN and Reality XP GNS in FS2020 because the SDK doesn't provide any overriding mean.

You don't even have to trust me, just trust Working Title

They are saying now the same I've been "hammering" (your words) even before FS2020 beta started...

NB: The RXP product must patch the simulator code in memory, at runtime, in order to augment the SDK with the missing few features, from FS9 to P3D5, whereas there is no need for any hacks with the XP11 SDK. This is really basic stuff, it is just RXP is probably the sole vendor having a need for this. However this would be a shortsighted view thinking so, because actually there are a certain number of limitations nearly all 3rd party vendors are facing with the SDK and the same facilities would help them too. I'm not saying this lightly, I've been exclusively working developing gauges and systems for the last 20 years on 14 different simulator version and 2 different simulator platforms. I know this kind of stuff deeply.

 

Edited March 21, 20215 yr by RXP

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

Really ? Have you look at the amount of addons airport you can have in MSFS now ?

nowhere close to the 14,697 3D airports that ship with X-Plane default.

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

vor, ndb

Well, the ones on LYBE were missing when they took the screenshot for me.

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

and forest

having forests is one thing. having forest you can recognise from their depiction on a VFR map is something else.

_____

The rest I will condense some, because they largely relate to the SDK and "Ease of making aircraft" (and to try and avoid making it an MSFS comparison).

Its not that you can't make good aircraft with other sims, its not that the SDKs are somehow "broken" and make things impossible, pretty much nothing is "impossible" in software, the question is more "is it economical to do it".

LR has had literally 30 years of experience working with developers 1 on 1 to make the process of making an aircraft from scratch as painless as possible to achieve as high as level of realism as possible (even when you dont have access to the real one - for example, when its still being designed), this is what they do. 

That's thirty years of documentation, mistakes and other invaluable lessons that enormously lower the barriers to developing an aircraft. If there is one thing you take away from this thread I would suggest its this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

To put that into an MSFS context if you wish, Aerosoft said they spent about $750,000 on the bird they just released, nice bird, its about 80% complete, more than good enough for the XBOX series X generation.

Roughly speaking, by that math, the remaining 20% will cost them $3,000,000

I'll leave you to posit the implications of that....

2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

 Please tell me which hardware

Hmmm, are you sure you want to go down that rabbit hole, there's a reason they call them divorce rigs you know, and its not from spending $3000 on a decent PC. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Edited March 21, 20215 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

nowhere close to the 14,697 3D airports that ship with X-Plane default.

I agree but would just point out that the X-Plane airports are all just basically community freeware (using default assets) included in the sim. Much the same is happening in MSFS.although whether any will ever be included in the initial download I do not know.

Edited March 21, 20215 yr by jarmstro

1 hour ago, RXP said:

You can't fly Reality XP GTN and Reality XP GNS in FS2020 because the SDK doesn't provide any overriding mean.

You can't use the GTN in X-Plane either if you have any other addon such as Traffic Global which uses TCAS because it crashes the sim!😂 And saying you can't have this or that is of no relevance. So what? 

Edited March 21, 20215 yr by jarmstro

Just now, jarmstro said:

You can't use the GTN in X-Plane either if you have any other addon such as Traffic Global which uses TCAS because it crashes the sim!😂 

You might want to report this in the RXP forums, because I always fly with TG in XP11...

3 minutes ago, RXP said:

You might want to report this in the RXP forums, because I always fly with TG in XP11...

Not with TCAS enabled inI TG and the GNT you don't...😀

I don't remind you've reported this in the RXP forum in the past either?!?! 

Do you mean there is a TCAS mode in TG, it is not just injecting traffic?

Can you please report this in the RXP forum, along with the GTN and TG version numbers you're using, and any other relevant information so that I can repro?

 

44 minutes ago, RXP said:

I don't remind you've reported this in the RXP forum in the past either?!?! 

Do you mean there is a TCAS mode in TG, it is not just injecting traffic?

Can you please report this in the RXP forum, along with the GTN and TG version numbers you're using, and any other relevant information so that I can repro?

 

No. I mean that if you have the TCAS box ticked in the Traffic Global settings the sim crashes if you load a plane with the GNT. Also the GNT seems to use old NAV data and I can't seem to find a way to inject it from Navigraph.  Nor can I see how to update the GNT itself? But it's no big deal. 

Edited March 21, 20215 yr by jarmstro

3 hours ago, Anxu00 said:

I only have Gizmo, required my many X-Aviation products, Avitab, and yes, I don't run freeware plugins, as you said, too much headache and every time XP updates, some of these will fail, but it's freeware.  My point of fixing XP11 and go slow on 12 is simple, unless there is a real hard reason to break everything to be in 12, why causing so much disruptions with a new version? Unless the business model is to introduce new version introduce new issues, trigger costly update.  Having said that, if there is a new version, I will be parsing and watching if the new features are that break through and justify the time and cost. Otherwise, I will just ignore it and stay where I am.  

Laminar is probably doing other stuff, but right now it seems is bad bug squashes, which is a good thing, hope they sort out the device loss thingy though it doesnt affect me

On 3/20/2021 at 2:25 PM, jarmstro said:

The trees in the lower shot perfectly illustrate why X-Plane is in need of modernisation.

I agree and would add the textures, lighting, sky, color, ambience, ground detail and objects, i.e. everything are in need of modernization.

On 3/20/2021 at 10:41 AM, RXP said:

I won't spent much more time than this on the topic of tone-mapping (and I'll add water in the mix), but here are a few screenshot I feel are illustrating these concepts to me.

NB: there are jpeg 8 bits, but when running live on 4K HDR 10 bits the difference with the XP11 tone mapper is even higher.

tone mapping + exposure:

 

Tone mapping (try not focusing on chroma - it is quite vivid - but to luma only):

 

Exposure:

 

Water:

 

Thanks for posting how a real engine renders, i.e.: Color, HDR, Lighting, Shadows, Depth, Vibrant Textures, and Draw Distance!   Until XP12 can produce this I don't want to see it.

I am uncertain that LR has the capability or capacity to create a brand new modern rendering pipeline that can compete against the budget that MS has but I would certainly like to see it. Competition  is good for everyone

1 hour ago, fogboundturtle said:

I am uncertain that LR has the capability or capacity to create a brand new modern rendering pipeline that can compete against the budget that MS has but I would certainly like to see it.

Why would they want to?  They can just use the same one that Asobo used.  Do you even know or understand anything about rendering pipelines and/or how they can be used by anyone wanting to use them?

Edited March 21, 20215 yr by GoranM

On 3/19/2021 at 10:09 PM, RXP said:

At least, I hope they'll revisit the X-Plane Tone Mapper*

I mean just take your screenshot in a paint program and look at the histogram. Tone mapping the HDR render into LDR is not using the full range and this shows. I've tried interposing the tone mapper in previous versions, when the shader code was all in text, and this was really helping a lot (although there are other bugs in the tone mapper Ben is aware of and not easily "patchable" just with shader code changes).

This is my "essay" about this, with pictures and code a few posts below this one:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/149559-enhanced-rendering-for-free-and-post-processsing/&do=findComment&comment=1422161

 

* XP11 shader code used to use the famous Uncharted 2 transfer function. You can see some examples of tone mapping on this blog post: http://filmicworlds.com/blog/filmic-tonemapping-operators/

Funny enough, the mobile's tone-mapper appears to be rather good! But HDR is not yet scalable in mobile I think.