MSFS used to generate weather dynamically from the atmospheric conditions supplied by Meteoblue, but have (apparently) abandoned that approach in favor of the METAR forced weather and its representation. If XP12 intends to follow the dynamic path they deserve and will receive support and full attention from serious simmers.

20 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

One of MSFS plus points, but also one of its negative points, is the photogrammetry.  Sometimes good, but sometimes ugly as hell.  Often the advice is to turn it off for the look and performance.  With photogrammetry off, you have a world of autogen - autogen that is is the right place to clearly show villages, towns and cities.  Together with correctly placed roads, rivers, rail and trees, a realistic view of the world is produced - good enough for VFR navigation. XPlane 12 based on Autogen, will no doubt look fantastic.

If XPlane 12 does indeed have advanced lighting and weather, with a good flight model, you have an exciting simulator.  Satellite scenery is of course icing on the cake, something MSFS can't be beaten on, but this fact alone does not relegate a simulator to the bin for those of us who do not worship at the alter of the one and only true flight sim.  I personally fly regularly in just a few areas of the globe.  No doubt those areas will be covered with satellite scenery from the likes of Orbx.

This is an exciting time for flight simming. MSFS is a superb simulator with some super aircraft coming in 2022.  I will absolutely be buying many of these aircraft and supporting MSFS going forward.  I will also be buying XPlane 12 on day one and be enjoying the unique features it brings to the table - being able to use all my current XPlane aircraft will be a major plus.

Enjoy MSFS for the superb flight sim it is, but at the same time there is no need to be so blinkered to what else is out there - enjoy it all!

I don't worship on any alter as you say. I have tried X plane 11 numerous times, on a friends top of the line PC, and next to MSFS currently. it is like going back 10-15 years, same with P3D. I wouldn't spend my time or money on anything today, but MSFS 2020. Been at this simming for many decades, and I am a pretty good judge of what is good and what is not. 

11 minutes ago, Mark1616 said:

MSFS used to generate weather dynamically from the atmospheric conditions supplied by Meteoblue, but have (apparently) abandoned that approach in favor of the METAR forced weather and its representation. If XP12 intends to follow the dynamic path they deserve and will receive support and full attention from serious simmers.

MSFS haven't abandoned The dynamic weather approach, they're using a mixture of dynamic weather supplied by Meteoblue and Metar's integrated as one. At least that's the way I understand it.

17 minutes ago, eaim1973 said:

MSFS haven't abandoned The dynamic weather approach, they're using a mixture of dynamic weather supplied by Meteoblue and Metar's integrated as one. At least that's the way I understand it.

Yes there are using a mixed system - there's more work to be done.  They use upper level winds either from GRIB or probably meteoblues own stuff.  I'm still shocked people don't want accurate metar weather when they land and takeoff.  Metar/taf is still the first thing I look at when planning a real flight.  

There's room for a totally dynamic system using a blend of metar and forecast tools in this sim.

23 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

48 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

One of MSFS plus points, but also one of its negative points, is the photogrammetry.  Sometimes good, but sometimes ugly as hell.  Often the advice is to turn it off for the look and performance.  With photogrammetry off, you have a world of autogen - autogen that is is the right place to clearly show villages, towns and cities.  Together with correctly placed roads, rivers, rail and trees, a realistic view of the world is produced - good enough for VFR navigation. XPlane 12 based on Autogen, will no doubt look fantastic.

If XPlane 12 does indeed have advanced lighting and weather, with a good flight model, you have an exciting simulator.  Satellite scenery is of course icing on the cake, something MSFS can't be beaten on, but this fact alone does not relegate a simulator to the bin for those of us who do not worship at the alter of the one and only true flight sim.  I personally fly regularly in just a few areas of the globe.  No doubt those areas will be covered with satellite scenery from the likes of Orbx.

This is an exciting time for flight simming. MSFS is a superb simulator with some super aircraft coming in 2022.  I will absolutely be buying many of these aircraft and supporting MSFS going forward.  I will also be buying XPlane 12 on day one and be enjoying the unique features it brings to the table - being able to use all my current XPlane aircraft will be a major plus.

Enjoy MSFS for the superb flight sim it is, but at the same time there is no need to be so blinkered to what else is out there - enjoy it all!

I don't worship on any alter as you say. I have tried X plane 11 numerous times, on a friends top of the line PC, and next to MSFS currently. it is like going back 10-15 years, same with P3D. I wouldn't spend my time or money on anything today, but MSFS 2020. Been at this simming for many decades, and I am a pretty good judge of what is good and what is not. 

XP 11 is a generation behind MSFS - my remarks refer to the next generation of XP.

You stated 'XP 12 might have good looking clouds, shame the rest of it looks like word not allowed.'  Clearly the preview images of XPlane 12 don't match your comment.  Regardless what XP12 brings to the table, you will continue to make disparaging remarks about it, hence my religious following remark.  You like MSFS as we all do, that is why we are on this forum, but this fact does not automatically mean XP12 is 'word not allowed'!

Besides, it will be bad for MSFS if there isn't a competitor trying to push technology forwards.

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Enjoy MSFS for the superb flight sim it is, but at the same time there is no need to be so blinkered to what else is out there - enjoy it all!

I don't understand what drives people to be 'blinkered'.  I personally don't care to use two platforms myself and got rid of P3D when I had to reformat and reinstall Win 10 many months ago.  I just found myself never using it after several months post MSFS release.  By the time XP12 is finally out if it really outshines MSFS at that point in time, out of the box, I will absolutely download the trial and see if it would be worth the learning curve.  Plus, I don't think I could stomach any kind of complex install if it's anything like P3D was I just wouldn't bother with it.  It will need to directly compete w/ MSFS in this regard, i.e.how it is w/ default installation of XP12.  Gone are the days of scenery addons I need to track and install myself, and mesh God forbid.  If cloud/weather depiction is clearly superior, and autogen scenery is capable of generating that sense of feeling like you're seeing what you would see w/ your own eyes from the cockpit, versus an artist's rendering but clearly not photoreal, then we would likely move over to XP12.  It would take that much for me at this point in time.  I think the satellite imagery is a huge plus.

I really hope the XP12 weather is superb. Competition raises the bar and it will push MSFS further. In any arena, its competition that makes everyone a winner.

MS devs will be watching for sure.

Edited January 11, 20224 yr by sanh

12 minutes ago, Noel said:

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Enjoy MSFS for the superb flight sim it is, but at the same time there is no need to be so blinkered to what else is out there - enjoy it all!

I don't understand what drives people to be 'blinkered'.  I personally don't care to use two platforms myself and got rid of P3D when I had to reformat and reinstall Win 10 many months ago.  I just found myself never using it after several months post MSFS release.  By the time XP12 is finally out if it really outshines MSFS at that point in time, out of the box, I will absolutely download the trial and see if it would be worth the learning curve.  Plus, I don't think I could stomach any kind of complex install if it's anything like P3D was I just wouldn't bother with it.  It will need to directly compete w/ MSFS in this regard, i.e.how it is w/ default installation of XP12.  Gone are the days of scenery addons I need to track and install myself, and mesh God forbid.  If cloud/weather depiction is clearly superior, and autogen scenery is capable of generating that sense of feeling like you're seeing what you would see w/ your own eyes from the cockpit, versus an artist's rendering but clearly not photoreal, then we would likely move over to XP12.  It would take that much for me at this point in time.  I think the satellite imagery is a huge plus.

The satellite imagery in MSFS is certainly a huge plus.  There appears to be enough advances in XP12 to give it a shot, but I would run it alongside MSFS as there is so much to enjoy with the MS/Asobo product.  I completely understand anybody only wanting to run one flight sim, but it just gets so boring when somebody thinks this justifies a religious following of it with a need to take an exception to any comment about a similar product.

Edited January 11, 20224 yr by MrBitstFlyer

22 minutes ago, Noel said:

I don't understand what drives people to be 'blinkered'.  I personally don't care to use two platforms myself and got rid of P3D when I had to reformat and reinstall Win 10 many months ago.  I just found myself never using it after several months post MSFS release.  By the time XP12 is finally out if it really outshines MSFS at that point in time, out of the box, I will absolutely download the trial and see if it would be worth the learning curve.  

So far, so good. I might go the same route, actually. And that's it for users of bare simulators.

But there's a critical point: If you bought MSFS addons, are you going to throw them away and buy new ones for XP12? I have tons (yes, tons) of P3D addons, quite an amount of XP11 addons (from the time where it was said to be the next big thing) and even a number of AeroflyFS2 addons (which was a nonstarter in hindsight). 

I didn't regret more or less to abandon these (I have the sims still installed and very rarely fire them up) in favor of MSFS addons which I collected over the last 18 months as I felt MSFS is a big jump into the future. However, I am not sure I am Prepared to start buying XP12 addons (I doubt the XP11 ones will do it ) to make this one shine and abandon my host of MSFS addons again.

The same goes for the upcoming AeroflyFS4.

I am afraid most of us will have to draw a line when it comes to buying addons. Or avoid buying addons at all.

Kind regards, Michael

Edited January 11, 20224 yr by pmb

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Jean-Luc's comment, "the following XP12 preview screenshot shows they are generating volumetric clouds which, IMHO, are not only not shy of any other volumetric cloud in any other title but are also portraying an underlying meteorological phenomenon precluding their generation..." presumably was his guess based on the screenshot--and that was my impression when I saw it as well.

I'm not trying to be a downer here, but reading through this thread I still don't get how there's speculation with regards to a superior dynamic weather system and rendering coming from a single screenshot of some random clouds? What is it that I'm missing that tells us this is not just eye candy? The screenshot shows the visual end result and obviously not what's happening behind the scenes.

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Besides, it will be bad for MSFS if there isn't a competitor trying to push technology forwards.

Microsoft pushes itself.  Besides the situation is currently the reverse of your comment.

ns

2 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

XP 11 is a generation behind MSFS - my remarks refer to the next generation of XP.

 

I like talking about currently available programs, not vapor ware. 

It is instructive to note that in none of the previews we've seen thus far of X-Plane 12 is the ground shown clearly from altitude. In other words, no actual X-Plane 12 scenery is displayed in the previews. I wonder why? Re-watch the X-Plane 12 videos and screen captures. These previews are calculated and well done in the sense that, from altitude, ground scenery is either deliberately shadowed out or blurred with a depth-of-field filter that would never be used during standard operation of the sim. Don't let your mind construct confabulated memories of these previews. Go back and look. The cloud picture looks fine, if your interest is solely in the clouds.

Moreover, the idea that Asobo is nervously watching LR and taking meticulous notes about X-Plane 12 is truly a joke. You don't use a cannon to shoot a sparrow. Also, the idea that LR, rather than Asobo, is "pushing sim technology forward" is 180 degrees backward. Asobo is quite obviously the company pushing sim technology forward. 

 

2 minutes ago, David Mills said:

It is instructive to note that in none of the previews we've seen thus far of X-Plane 12 is the ground shown clearly from altitude. In other words, no actual X-Plane 12 scenery is displayed in the previews. I wonder why? Re-watch the X-Plane 12 videos and screen captures. These previews are calculated and well done in the sense that, from altitude, ground scenery is either deliberately shadowed out or blurred with a depth-of-field filter that would never be used during standard operation of the sim. Don't let your mind construct confabulated memories of these previews. Go back and look. The cloud picture looks fine, if your interest is solely in the clouds.

Moreover, the idea that Asobo is nervously watching LR and taking meticulous notes about X-Plane 12 is truly a joke. You don't use a cannon to shoot a sparrow. Also, the idea that LR, rather than Asobo, is "pushing sim technology forward" is 180 degrees backward. Asobo is quite obviously the company pushing sim technology forward. 

 

The bottom line is that LR has been dragging their feet for years with their miniscule improvements, and now they face some real competition. I think they have a tiger by the tail now, and the only thing they can latch onto is some clouds. The sim world is passing them by.

IMO time to move this to the x-plane section.

10 minutes ago, David Mills said:

 no actual X-Plane 12 scenery is displayed in the previews. I wonder why?

It's actually much more simple than your speculations: x-plane 12 DSFs are still under development and all the footage are x-plane 11 DSFs, they even mentioned that like at least on 10 other occasions. 

FWIW, they did preview the quality of art we can expect, and you can see some of this footage does not have all the other new features, some are even with the old lighting: