8 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

I'm still shocked people don't want accurate metar weather when they land and takeoff.  Metar/taf is still the first thing I look at when planning a real flight. 

I’m still shocked when people need to look at METAR before taking off. In MSFS previously, there was no need as the meteoblue forecasts were providing the weather model, and now there is no need as the weather is not accurate to the METARs anyway, resulting in lower visual quality with no accuracy gain, i.e, bad. . We also simply don’t need the weather in sim to be exactly the same as in the real world so real world weather observations are totally pointless and I’m shocked people use them. In my opinion it would be better go back to the wonderful global dynamic weather model based on the meteoblue forecasts and to have the sim, or 3rd party software produce ‘METARs’ based on the weather that is actually being injected into the sim. Here they would be actually relevant, unlike the real world METARs, as they would be describing the actual weather in the sim , and therefore if great use for flight planning without visually ruining the look of the weather model.

3 hours ago, David Mills said:

The reason this thread is in the MSFS forum is because the OP posted a presumed screenshot from X-Plane 12 in the MSFS forum and solicited comments.

I wonder how the people in the XP forum would react  if we started posting videos of MSFS2020 on their forum  and asked for comments on how good MSFS 2020  looked? 

Edited January 12, 20224 yr by Bobsk8

5 minutes ago, abennett said:

I’m still shocked when people need to look at METAR before taking off. In MSFS previously, there was no need as the meteoblue forecasts were providing the weather model, and now there is no need as the weather is not accurate to the METARs anyway, resulting in lower visual quality with no accuracy gain, i.e, bad. . We also simply don’t need the weather in sim to be exactly the same as in the real world so real world weather observations are totally pointless and I’m shocked people use them. In my opinion it would be better go back to the wonderful global dynamic weather model based on the meteoblue forecasts and to have the sim, or 3rd party software produce ‘METARs’ based on the weather that is actually being injected into the sim. Here they would be actually relevant, unlike the real world METARs, as they would be describing the actual weather in the sim , and therefore if great use for flight planning without visually ruining the look of the weather model.

Aviators have been using metars since their inception.  They're reasonably accurate especially at towered airports where the controllers or observers will also amend them to generate SPECIs if need be.  There would be no point to live weather in the sim if it weren't updated to match the real world.  Sounds like custom weather is something you would prefer  - you can setup the weather how you'd like it - doesn't match real world.  Thankfully they already have an option for that.  

Additionally the reason metar is needed is because the old way might of had decent weather aloft, but you'd check that weather at your destination airport and it would be clear - whereas the metar would be calling it IFR.  Many people plan flights in the sim based off real world weather.  Also the ASOS and ATIS in the sim did not match the weather at the field anyway.  Might as well forget about weather at all in the sim!

 

Edited January 12, 20224 yr by ryanbatcund

14 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

Guess you missed Pacman and pong back over 40 years ago. MSFS and whatever XP12 comes out will be next level as far as clouds..

Edit I see how many fake folks come here a trash MSFS clouds  with no idea how to improve them yet I see many RWP and longtime flightsimmers on youtube and Twitch rave about MSFS clouds go figure?

No idea what you're on about and I don't recall asking about your angry little feelings on " fake folks trashing MSFS clouds" as that doesn't have anything to do with what I posted bud.

I LOVE MSFS visually especially now clouds seem to look better after the last patch, but I also loved how REX clouds in FSX rendered in 3D/VR, even in bitmapped method they appeared realistic and believable.

Is that ok with you? Can Bobcat99 and I miss REX FSX clouds while loving current MSFS visuals??

Sheesh....BTW I'm one of the longtime flightsimmers on Youtube who rave about MSFS clouds duh...🙃

 

Edited January 12, 20224 yr by blueshark747

6 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I wonder how the people in the XP forum would react  if we started posting videos of MSFS2020 on their forum  and asked for comments on how good MSFS 2020  looked? 

Same as here I would imagine.  Many would be excited at how the world of flight sim is progressing, but the them and us type of people would be just as vocal.  I am so glad I enjoy both sims!

26 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I wonder how the people in the XP forum would react  if we started posting videos of MSFS2020 on their forum  and asked for comments on how good MSFS 2020  looked? 

They'd delete the post. I know. I've tried. 🙂

3 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

Aviators have been using metars since their inception.  They're reasonably accurate especially at towered airports where the controllers or observers will also amend them to generate SPECIs if need be.  There would be no point to live weather in the sim if it weren't updated to match the real world.  Sounds like custom weather is something you would prefer  - you can setup the weather how you'd like it - doesn't match real world.  Thankfully they already have an option for that.  

Additionally the reason metar is needed is because the old way might of had decent weather aloft, but you'd check that weather at your destination airport and it would be clear - whereas the metar would be calling it IFR.  Many people plan flights in the sim based off real world weather.  Also the ASOS and ATIS in the sim did not match the weather at the field anyway.  Might as well forget about weather at all in the sim!

 

Undeniably, METAR is a fundament of aviation. What the critics of the latest MSFS weather are saying is not to not use METAR, but derive it from the dynamic weather simulation. It is representing the real weather very well, with exceptions. It has been proven on the other hand that the recent implementation has almost without exception broken the immersion and realism while the true-to-life accuracy hasn’t improved sufficiently to justify it. 
Besides, is it really so bad if the pilots occasionally meet the arrival weather which is different than reported? I’d say it’s a pleasant challenge for IVAO controllers as well to have to accommodate a pilot’s request.

Edited January 12, 20224 yr by Mark1616

6 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I wonder how the people in the XP forum would react  if we started posting videos of MSFS2020 on their forum  and asked for comments on how good MSFS 2020  looked? 

I suppose it depends on whether a mature discussion about the differences was the intention or alternatively, a “my sim is better than your sim” troll post was the intention.

Posting in a neutral area like Hangar Chat might be considered safe but would it necessarily get as many reads.

As with many thing intent is everything.

9 hours ago, Mark1616 said:

Undeniably, METAR is a fundament of aviation. What the critics of the latest MSFS weather are saying is not to not use METAR, but derive it from the dynamic weather simulation. It is representing the real weather very well, with exceptions. It has been proven on the other hand that the recent implementation has almost without exception broken the immersion and realism while the true-to-life accuracy hasn’t improved sufficiently to justify it. 
Besides, is it really so bad if the pilots occasionally meet the arrival weather which is different than reported? I’d say it’s a pleasant challenge for IVAO controllers as well to have to accommodate a pilot’s request.

You do realize that the current version of the METAR-including weather is far from finished right? I understand that the weather experience currently is worse than before and I personally would much more prefer if MS would push out mature parts to the customers rather than unstable ones that degrade the overall experience. But I'm seeing this a lot on the forums that people complain about the current weather - rightly so - but apparently without realizing this isn't how it's supposed to work. Judge the METAR implementation when it's finished or at least mature. Besides, the goal is to retain the predictive weather model but incorporate METARs to have more accurate weather at and around airports.

I don't think anyone complained about winds being slightly off with the previous version. The issue was that many people seem to have experienced weather conditions entirely different from real world. As long as it's supposed to be live weather this can't happen.

It's fine if the weather slightly differs from the METAR every now and then or deviates over time until a new METAR is issued, as this of course happens in the real world too. But you can't have weather changes between people flying different sims in online events. That would wreak havoc and essentially make proper traffic flow at a busy airport impossible.

58 minutes ago, threegreen said:

I personally would much more prefer if MS would push out mature parts to the customers rather than unstable ones that degrade the overall experience.

I wonder if Azure AI and cloud computing actually make the "its not done but we're releasing what we've got" approach a requirement.  I don't know how involved Azure is with the weather if at all but this new MSFS is no where near like previous versions and none of the old rules can apply as set in stone.  Consider PMDG releasing and then pulling the XBox version of the Dc-6 because apparently they couldn't test it beforehand?  Maybe not connected to Azure AI at all but not being able to test something until after being released sounds familiar.

@Noel  I'm really surprised this thread has gone on this long without any mention of this so here it is -- the original intent:

 

Edited January 12, 20224 yr by sightseer

55 minutes ago, sightseer said:

Consider PMDG releasing and then pulling the XBox version of the Dc-6 because apparently they couldn't test it beforehand?  Maybe not connected to Azure AI at all but not being able to test something until after being released sounds familiar.

I'm guessing PMDG haven't been given an Xbox dev kit. You can activate a developer mode on any retail Xbox, but I'm pretty sure it's limited, compared to the proper dev kit... Xbox development certainly isn't as simple as coding on your PC and it should run.

1 hour ago, sightseer said:

@Noel  I'm really surprised this thread has gone on this long without any mention of this so here it is -- the original intent:

Thank you for that!  To me what I hear is:

1. They likely have as much or more data available to use as anyone--their portrayal of source data that Austin of LR used to develop tools for pilots looks pretty much the same.
2. They're enjoying the heck out of seeing their product 'manifested' thru MSFS.
3. Because of #2, they have a vested interest to assist MS/A in any conceivable way possible to continue to evolve the relationship and end product.

Cheers

1 hour ago, March Hare said:

I'm guessing PMDG haven't been given an Xbox dev kit. You can activate a developer mode on any retail Xbox, but I'm pretty sure it's limited, compared to the proper dev kit... Xbox development certainly isn't as simple as coding on your PC and it should run.

I read in the forums multiple times from people including some developers that apparently the Xbox dev kit works differently than the actual Xbox a consumer would have, so they can't test how an addon would run on the Xbox before release, which is why things like this game-breaking bug are only discovered when the addon is out.

26 minutes ago, threegreen said:

I read in the forums multiple times from people including some developers that apparently the Xbox dev kit works differently than the actual Xbox a consumer would have, so they can't test how an addon would run on the Xbox before release, which is why things like this game-breaking bug are only discovered when the addon is out.

The funny thing is you can activate dev mode on a retail unit, which was enabled for indie developers (bedroom programmers, as we used to say) to make games for it. Also, I'm pretty sure Microsoft said their own Q&A team tested it and it worked before release. It is a strange one...

In my opinion the clouds look good. Only feather clouds are missing.