1 hour ago, GSalden said:

Common Noel, you too ? Writing a long post about ….. what ?

Some people just keep writing out of boredom…. 🥳

 

 Noel has a point and is fully within the scope of this thread. It is maybe not your intention but you seem to equate hardcore simming with running a complex dedicated 737 Prosim home cockpit simulator and the need for the corresponding API. You are in a extremely limited niche which is not a litmus test to qualify hardcore simming.

Let me be blunt. I really hope that Asobo doesn’t take much of its time to cater to a few tens of home cockpit Prosim simmers worldwide  and do the job to improve the sim where it really matters for all of us. And this includes of course expanding the simconnect protocol. The Milviz stream is very enlighting in this regard. So there maybe is a convergence of interests after all. 

Then the question which was raised many times is what is hardcore simming ? I would answer in two different ways : 

- the serious one. Hardcore simming real litmus test is to follow the whole procedural path of a real flight to a T, from a minutious preflight planning to the respect of any ATC constraints and the engine management to the shutting down after landing. I am not this dedicated.

- the one I like. A hardcore simmer is the one who loves to drive an aircraft without any dumbing down of the model, balancing all the thermo- and aerodynamics parameters of a flight to a safe landing. In that sense, landing a Cub in a crosswind is certainly more hardcore that injecting a Simbrief ready-made flight plan in a FMS and only taking charge of the 737 from the gate to 300 m above ground and let the aircraft do everything including the landing to finally taxi back to a gate. 

In a nutshell, hardcore simming is not, for me, to simulate the job of a airliner pilot, it is… flying.

Edited January 29, 20224 yr by Dominique_K

There are far more gamers than flight sim enthusiasts in this world, far far more.

I'm not gonna argue which way MSFS is biased but I will say considering the wants of the casual gamer is clearly a significant influence on Development.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, GSalden said:

You really have no idea what you are talking about ….

I have a real size cockpit here and MSFS does not support many features Prosim needs. I am not going to repeat everything again.

The SDK still has features that are Not Ready. If you would like to see a list of that download the SDK and start learning ….

Why is it such an issue for you that MSFS is not for hardcore simmers ? Let MS decide what they want it to be, as it is not up to you or me …

Just enjoy what you have 

You aren't making sense, You repeatedly assert MSFS is not a hardcore sim and also that you are a hardcore simmer...so why are you even here?

9 hours ago, Noel said:

To me, the entire label, 'hardcore simmer' should really be banned from use at Avsim.  What's far more useful is to forget the label and focus on what needs to be done to improve the simulator. 

I understand this is just a hyperbole (I am against any form of censorship), and I see the meaning behind it. Forget labels and see what is needed to improve is true in general, and often a good solution.

Nevertheless, it's just human nature: we have a tendency to classify everything on a linear axis: "mine is better/taller/stronger/longer/... than yours". It is somewhat encoded in our genetic code. We feel reassured when we convince ourselves that we are sitting at the top of the list, even if there is no list at all. And in order to sit at the top of the nonexistent list we do absurd things like buying expensive sports gear (the shoes made Michael Jordan a great player, everybody knows), cosplaying real airline pilots, saying things we don't even understand the meaning of, embark in clever discussions about aerodynamics and mathematical modeling with just college maths under our belt ...

Reality is complex, much more complex than it appears. The human mind is complex. Assuming that everything can be put in a linear order is wrong. On the other hand, deciding that the spot in which we feel comfortable in this multidimensional chaos is the right one, and that all the others are wrong, is another illusion of the same kind: the illusion that the only list that counts is that of common sense, and of course we are obviously sitting at the top of it. I am not missing airliners, real time weather, multiple monitors, interfacing with complex cockpit simulators, seasons. Should I make fun  of those who think these  are important shortcomings? Should they make fun of me because I am not "hard-simming"? I am missing other stuff. But invariably, when I try to say so, someone makes fun of me and of my preferences. In many cases, they say that I am against Microsoft or Asobo.

Again, the human weakness of refusing complexity, and of classifying everything in one dimensional lists.

Of which, of course, we occupy the top position.

A.

15 minutes ago, Pathfinder633 said:

so why are you even here?

I don’t agree much with Gerard but I appreciate that he comes here to present his views and feed the debate. He has a definite bias which comes from his way of simming but I would miss him leaving. No gatekeeping ! 

Edited January 29, 20224 yr by Dominique_K

When reading this thread and - lengthy - debate about "hardcore simmers", I can't help but think about how such a similar debate would go for real world pilots, who is a "hardcore" pilot: Airline pilot, military pilot, helicopter pilot, GA pilot, glider pilot, ULM pilot... then as sub-sets, one would need to go into those flying long-hauls, short-hauls, above their house, IFR, VFR, night, winter............(no end in site)?!!!

All the above are flyers in one way or another! So are simmers, they share the virtual skies in their respective talent and capacity, period. The rest is pure trivia and flex muscle posturing.

Edited January 29, 20224 yr by Bernard Ducret

1 minute ago, Dominique_K said:

I don’t agree much with Gerard but I appreciate that he comes here to present his views and feed the debate. He has a definite bias which comes from his way of simming but I would miss him leaving. No gatekeeping ! 

Then let me explain, someone says they are a hardcore simmer and sets themselves apart from those who aren't, they then repeatedly assert that MSFS is not a hardcore sim, this is the MSFS section of the forum

I wasnt gatekeeping I asked why is he here and im sure he can answer for himself. No telling others what to do !

9 hours ago, RichUK said:

Folk who need to label themselves apart from everyone else have attention issues. We are all in this together. Spending a bunch of money on the sim doesn't make you better than a person with just a joystick.

You are actually labeling people who label themselves, without even knowing them. And giving them a diagnosis, a serious one. Wow.

You just proved spectacularly that labeling is a generalized human need. I think that we should accept that we have different needs, wants, dreams, and avoid judging altogether. Yes, also avoid the "I am hardcore and you are not" attitude. And I agree: "Spending a bunch of money on the sim doesn't make you better than a person with just a joystick". Absolutely right.

And I really hope that the "I am a sane person, I am not sure about you" attitude will stop soon.

A.

15 minutes ago, Pathfinder633 said:

 

I wasnt gatekeeping I asked why is he here and im sure he can answer for himself. No telling others what to do !

I answer for myself and not for him : I want him to stay because I think this forum  needs contradictory opinions, a robust debate,  when you ask him why he is here.

This forum and the P3D one have a history. I have known Gerard for quite  sometime and I rarely am in agreement with him. But I credit him of a good faith. He is not a MSFS bilious hater like some other upthread. He is just wrong 🤣

 

Edited January 29, 20224 yr by Dominique_K

47 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I don’t agree much with Gerard but I appreciate that he comes here to present his views and feed the debate. He has a definite bias which comes from his way of simming but I would miss him leaving. No gatekeeping ! 

Don’t worry : I will be here as long as I fly MSFS 🤗

Surely I need extra SDK features and when a thread like this appears I will point to them. So I am very biased.

One thing that I am sure of is when the PMDG 737 has everything it needs to be working in the SDK I will benefit from that too.

If Asobo will really make all planned Not ready features work I will be the happiest summer around  ✈️

Regarding you all : I want MSFS to evolve to what MS/Asobo claiming it will be in the future so everyone will enjoy it ….. I see many of you waiting for the next WU/SU and hoping that this time it will be better ….

C’est ça Dominique 😉

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Pathfinder633 said:

Then let me explain, someone says they are a hardcore simmer and sets themselves apart from those who aren't, they then repeatedly assert that MSFS is not a hardcore sim, this is the MSFS section of the forum

I wasnt gatekeeping I asked why is he here and im sure he can answer for himself. No telling others what to do !

For me, "hardcore simming" is a state of mind rather than a sim or aircraft feature set. If you're practicing patterns as they should be done in real life, in an A2A J-3, then you're every bit as hard core as someone flying PMDG. And you're in a study-level aircraft too. 🙂

2 minutes ago, Holdit said:

For me, "hardcore simming" is a state of mind rather than a sim or aircraft feature set. If you're practicing patterns as they should be done in real life, in an A2A J-3, then you're every bit as hard core as someone flying PMDG. And you're in a study-level aircraft too. 🙂

👍👍👍👍

Pretty much the BEST EVER definition of hardcore simming I've been able top express myself or read !

1 hour ago, Bernard Ducret said:

When reading this thread and - lengthy - debate about "hardcore simmers", I can't help but think about how such a similar debate would go for real world pilots, who is a "hardcore" pilot: Airline pilot, military pilot, helicopter pilot, GA pilot, glider pilot, ULM pilot... then as sub-sets, one would need to go into those flying long-hauls, short-hauls, above their house, IFR, VFR, night, winter............(no end in site)?!!!

All the above are flyers in one way or another! So are simmers, they share the virtual skies in their respective talent and capacity, period. The rest is pure trivia and flex muscle posturing.

The debate is not only theoretical 😃. 

The questions ultimately are, are we (we, the non casual) happy of the direction taken by the development ? Is it directed only to casual simming ? Is the xbox hardware a limitation to our overall PC experience?

I am happy to play an excellent MSFS, I don’t miss my old P3D, but I am not happy to see that some of the basics are still missing and I am not confident that I will ever see them. The MSFS team has said so many things…I am sorry to say, that I consider a priori everything  I hear during the Q&A as smoke and mirrors until I see them working in my rig. 

Is the Xbox development bad for the PC player ? The poor UI (design, content) apparently comes from the Xbox world. It seems that some of the degradations in the LW weather are also related to the « optimization » for the box but the jury is still out on this one.

 

Edited January 29, 20224 yr by Dominique_K

21 minutes ago, Holdit said:

For me, "hardcore simming" is a state of mind rather than a sim or aircraft feature set. If you're practicing patterns as they should be done in real life, in an A2A J-3, then you're every bit as hard core as someone flying PMDG. And you're in a study-level aircraft too. 🙂

So  in your opinion the difference between someone simming on a 14” laptop and practicing patterns is just as hardcore as someone with a full size A320 cockpit using 3 4K beamers as it is a “State of mind” ….

I don’t think so 🤔

4 minutes ago, GSalden said:

So  in your opinion the difference between someone simming on a 14” laptop and practicing patterns is just as hardcore as someone with a full size A320 cockpit using 3 4K beamers as it is a “State of mind” ….

I don’t think so 🤔

Yes, if he's taking it just as seriously. It's about flight, not buttons.

Interesting how the definition of hardcore simmer is a moving target though. It's gone from deeply-modelled airliner systems to how much money the simmer can afford to throw at the hobby. This just indicates even more clearly what a meaningless term it is.