6 minutes ago, WestAir said:

I don't care what you say, that's pretty hard-core.

Not if you can fly through it, it's not.   😜

 

Your wake creating it as you pass he said...

That stuff got me really excited. Hope it comes like this 😄

I won't switch until there is better multi-screen support.  For a true full cockpit simulation it still is not quite there.  Prosim, the standard for 737 simulation works with it, but there are limits to what it can do currently, and you can't stretch a single view around a cockpit and make it look nice yet,  If they can do that, AND keep performance where it is, then it'll take over the rest of the market that is still using P3D.

19 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

Every single day I see gatekeeping post. I know it's a mix of individuals but they is a general view that xbox users are below pc users. This needs to stop. Avsim is at the forefront of this mentality. I know it's a generalization and doesn't apply to everyone but you cannot fix a problem if you don't acknowledge it's existence. 

Saying that Avsim is at the forefront  is plainly untrue.  Calling out a stupid post denigrating a Xbox user is one thing, willing to censor a whole forum according to your mania is another thing.  "Fixing a problem" by denying the free expression of opinion of people with whom you disagree ?  Not for me, thank you very much, I'll pass.  

You don't like the supposed gatekeeping of this community ? Why do you come ? Sorry I do not want you to leave but when a place doesn't suit me I don't go there.

Anyway that will be enough for me. I do not want this thread to be closed.

6 hours ago, DJJose said:

A year and a half later. Maybe if they would have started the communication a year and a half before the initial release of MSFS, we would be enjoying a 737 Max. Maybe?

It's not like they didn't know the best devs in the business.

Except thats not how it has ever worked with any sim, not even the one's vaulted by the "hardcore simmer".  A release sometime this year is right on par with how it went with FSX, P3D, etc, etc.

I also see a lot of people reading in what was "expected" on release.  I was there too.   Half of what people say was "promised" was their own expectations being mapped onto what was actually said in the press releases and videos.  The release version is actually pretty close to in line of what was actually promised.

As for the other things that many seasoned members of the communities have complained about - mediocre AI, ATC, less than study level Garmins, fully implemented hydraulic and electical sims ... NONE of those things exist as part of the core components of any consumer sim.  The capabilities in the "hardcore" offerings all come from addons, some free, many not.  Its the same thing here.  I have fantastic AI right now with AIG, PSXT, and RT - plane spotting while listening to LiveATC is awesome!  But you have to add it... JUST like with every other option.  The features promised on release, live traffic from Flightaware, live weather from MeteoBlue.  For the most part they ARE working.  The issue is that the initial implementations using these systems arent as accurate as we would like - we are a rightlfully very picky crowd.  That doesnt mean that Asobo didnt deliver what they promised - they did, its just that the initial promise wasnt good enough for many.  It now means that we have to keep pushing for alternatives, and or improvements, which is what has been taking place.

The only valid complaint I've seen (IMO) was that the SDK was less than adequate at the start.  That was certainly a victim of the rush to provide the world with an amazing sim opportunity while we were all stuck home for the pandemic.  If thats the major sin, then so be it.  The initial shortcomings are being addressed on a regular and steady basis, and the words from the majority of the 3PD's is that there is very little holding them back from delivering the high fidelity systems simulation we desire.  Every indication is there, if you're being intellectually honest, that this will be a very good year for MSFS.

What updates to fsx? 😄 We had one service pack, then that was IT... for 14 years.

The fact this has had so much evolution and change is exactly what people begged for for literally years. A constantly updated, modern simulator...
Nothing is good enough for some... me? I'm glad to see this as the starting point... and see where we go!

1 hour ago, pmb said:

 

Yes, I still recall my first unfortunate landings in Meigs with FS4 when I didn't even know what that ball gauge and a VOR are for.

I burst in laugh reading this as it reminded me that it took me quite some time to understand and implement the basic rule of landing : watch your speed ! 

 

3 minutes ago, jlohrenz said:

I won't switch until there is better multi-screen support.  For a true full cockpit simulation it still is not quite there.  Prosim, the standard for 737 simulation works with it, but there are limits to what it can do currently, and you can't stretch a single view around a cockpit and make it look nice yet,  If they can do that, AND keep performance where it is, then it'll take over the rest of the market that is still using P3D.

Correct. The limited SDK/Simconnect is responsible for that. 
Rob is right that MSFS is not for the hardcore simmer but I guess that is no issue for 95% of the MSFS users.

But I am enjoying the outside world. I spent almost € 1000 on PR scenery + custom AG when using P3D and now I have it for free and it even looks better.

But P3D is more stable and has more support for cockpit builders.

Using a P3D server .+ multiple MSFS view clients would be the best of both worlds. I have all hardware for that already.

But let’s see what 2022 brings… ✈️

 

3 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Correct. The limited SDK/Simconnect is responsible for that. 
Rob is right that MSFS is not for the hardcore simmer but I guess that is no issue for 95% of the MSFS users.

But I am enjoying the outside world. I spent almost € 1000 on PR scenery + custom AG when using P3D and now I have it for free and it even looks better.

But P3D is more stable and has more support for cockpit builders.

Using a P3D server .+ multiple MSFS view clients would be the best of both worlds. I have all hardware for that already.

But let’s see what 2022 brings… ✈️

 

P3D has been around for what ? close to 10 years now. MSFS is only 18 months old. So it's a bit of an unfair comparison. Also 95% of the all "hardcore" simming is done outside the sim using DLL injection. MSFS wants to keep it a close system. 

7 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I burst in laugh reading this as it reminded me that it took me quite some time to understand and implement the basic rule of landing : watch your speed ! 

 

No Dominique, the basic rule of landing is not to lose sight of your touchdown point. I know this...

5 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Rob is right that MSFS is not for the hardcore simmer

This is a distinction with no clear definition.  What is a 'hardcore simmer'...in ANYONE's humble opinion?

14 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Rob is right that MSFS is not for the hardcore simmer

No, he's not, and you're not, because once these discussions play out he (and you) end up effectively using the No True Scotsman argument.    Here's a more direct example that I've seen almost verbatim on here many times in the past:

"MSFS is not for hardcore simmers."

"I'm a hardcore simmer, and I practice real-world pilotage in the sim, which it's great at."

"No TRUE hardcore simmer... etc."

 

You can't specify a list of things you would like the sim to do, that it doesn't do, and define by those exceptions that it's not for "hardcore simmers".

It's not for your particular subset, perhaps.  But you are not all.

Edited January 28, 20224 yr by DeepestRed

2 minutes ago, Noel said:

What is a 'hardcore simmer'

Whatever the egotist telling you he is one says it is.

3 minutes ago, Fizzelle said:

No Dominique, the basic rule of landing is not to lose sight of your touchdown point. I know this...

I always thought that on the contrary you need to look at the end of the runway. Hmmm...