Also tired of the elitist snob that thinks VFR flying is beneath commercial airliner flying.  They are better than us because they press AP 300 feet from the ground and walked away for 6 hours.....

There are still people out there that won't upgrade to fsx because fs2004 does stuff  they want.... each to their own... your own game, your own time.


Oh god I said game... *runs*

In my opinion the only shortcomings (albeit there are quite a bit) for MSFS is just on the development side, if you're using the sim as a hardcore or non hardcore pilot, the experience is still really good.

2 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I always thought that on the contrary you need to look at the end of the runway. Hmmm... 

It might well depend on your instructor - I had both! Looking at the end of the runway is fine BUT focussing on that too much tends to encourage "floating" and, before you know it, you're powering up in a panic "go round".

5 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

Wloch seemed reluctant then and pretty vague about the future of these features ...... There was even a time when we feared not to have any ATC at all

there was a time not too long ago (last year) when Seb Wloch couldn't even fly a real airplane. He got his private pilot license only last summer, i.e. AFTER MSFS was released. If that's not progress! but he knows graphics, with x-plane's Austin Meyer it's the other way around and it shows. your choice.

3 minutes ago, DeepestRed said:

No, he's not, and you're not, because he (and you) are effectively using the No True Scotsman argument.    Here's a more direct example that I've seen almost verbatim on here in the past:

"MSFS is not for hard core simmers."

"I'm a hard-core simmer, and I practice real-world pilotage in the sim, which it's great at."

"No TRUE hard core simmer... etc."

 

You can't specify a list of things you would like the sim to do, that it doesn't do, and define by those exceptions that it's not for "hardcore simmers".

It's not for your particular subset, perhaps.  But you are not all.

You really have no idea what you are talking about ….

I have a real size cockpit here and MSFS does not support many features Prosim needs. I am not going to repeat everything again.

The SDK still has features that are Not Ready. If you would like to see a list of that download the SDK and start learning ….

Why is it such an issue for you that MSFS is not for hardcore simmers ? Let MS decide what they want it to be, as it is not up to you or me …

Just enjoy what you have 

7 minutes ago, turbomax said:

with x-plane's Austin Meyer it's the other way around and it shows.

It shows how little can be accomplished by someone who thinks he knows everything...

Edited January 28, 20224 yr by DylanM

10 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Why is it such an issue for you that MSFS is not for hardcore simmers ?

I see you're from the Netherlands.  I know Dutch folks generally speak English very well, but still not natively, so perhaps that's why you don't seem to have grasped what I was saying.

To put it more plainly:   "Hardcore simmer" is a very subjective term, as it has no concrete definition.   YOU do not define what "hardcore simmer" means, thus YOU cannot define whether or whether not a sim is for "hardcore simmers".   And, as a corollary, YOU cannot say that because the sim does not meet YOUR needs, it is not for "hardcore simmers".   The most you can say is that it is not for people who have your particular needs.

Unless you are being a massive egotist and saying that only the folks who do what you do are "hardcore simmers", then its unsuitability for you does not make it "not for hardcore simmers".   That should be pretty straight forward, no?

(And if you are being a massive egotist and saying you get to define what a "hardcore simmer" is, at least we all now know.)

Edit:   Of, anders gezegd, ik spreek een beetje Nederlands, maar ik heb een hekel aan maatjes. Moet ik zeggen dat maatjes niet geschikt zijn voor serieuze Nederlanders?

Edited January 28, 20224 yr by DeepestRed

1 hour ago, Noel said:

I may well be given yet another warning or another holiday!

holiday? only if you are fully vaccinated/tested.

11 minutes ago, turbomax said:

there was a time not too long ago (last year) when Seb Wloch couldn't even fly a real airplane. He got his private pilot license only last summer, i.e. AFTER MSFS was released. If that's not progress! but he knows graphics, with x-plane's Austin Meyer it's the other way around and it shows. your choice.

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. I was just debunking the idea that  the MSFS team deceived us on the ATC and season features. They didn't. We knew beforehand that it would be the case. And I have never been interested by X-Plane so I am not sure to follow either the comparison between the two devs. And not interested to understand this last particular point.

It all depends on what you think a hard core simmer is. For instance:

15 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

An acceptable LoDRadius of 10SM (common METAR) MSFS renders no object details beyond about 5SM.

I remember times when hardcore simmers didn't care about LOD at all. Or scenery. Or graphics. It was all about the systems. So saying MSFS isn't a hardcore sim because it lacks detail in the distance is utter nonsense. Imho. But... to Rob it apparently is a reason to not call MSFS a hardcore sim. Who am I to argue? I've said it before but what defines hardcore? But even more important: who gives a word not allowed about what is or isn't hardcore? What surprises me most about so called (and usually self proclaimed) hardcore simmers aren't their requirements (which I often don't agree with) but their apparent need to be seen and acknowledged as such.

19 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I've listed why MSFS is currently not for hard core simmers such as myself

 

27 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

The OP said it's for hard core simmers and I listed why it's NOT for me as a hard core simmer.

So you are a hardcore simmer, good for you. Why do you care? Does it make you a better person? Why do you care about that title so much? Why do you even call yourself a hardcore simmer? Why make that distinction? And more importantly, why do you care what others think about it? I can't care less what people think about me when it comes to simming. I am happy not to have that burden and that I can enjoy what I've got. Or not. Who cares?

26 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

What you enjoy vs. what I enjoy are different, doesn't make it any worse or better, it's not a competition.

Amen to that. Imho we are all flight simmers or people that play flight sims. Let's stop dividing the MSFS users in gamers and simmers and hardcore simmers or whatever. What's the use? It only results in odd topics like this one and it doesn't make anyone any happier. Just enoy MSFS for what it is.

18 minutes ago, Fizzelle said:

It might well depend on your instructor - I had both! Looking at the end of the runway is fine BUT focussing on that too much tends to encourage "floating" and, before you know it, you're powering up in a panic "go round".

I like the end of the runway thing, it has a political flavor ! Of course the floating goes also with it  then😄. Seriously , as a simmer who has never piloted a true aircraft, my experience is that I need to do both in the sim but its better to float a little than to make a hard landing. My damage option is always ON 😉. And watch my speed !

 

This is also why MS Phil Spencer want`s as many games including MSFS on game pass and XBOX.

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12 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Why is it such an issue for you that MSFS is not for hardcore simmers ?

why do "serious simmers" (TM) even "play" MSFS in the first place? serious simulators, those used by the "hard core" real airlines, use serious simulators with graphics/ATC/AI/real world weather/icing/rain effects/sounds/scenery that would put even FSX to shame. I don't get it. the few times I flew a "study level" full motion "serious simulator" I forgot about the lousy graphics all together. I didn't miss any of the fancy stuff we enjoy and can't live without in our pc/game boxes. we are talking home entertainment here, not the boring professional procedure and crew management trainers for the "hard core" real world pilots 😊

Back when I used to fly, I'd hear other pilots comment on Navy guys landing on a deck, or Freight Dogs flying the metroliner, by saying something like "See that's real flying."

It always bothered me because I'd be just as dead if I messed up as they would be, and in MSFS I'd be just as alive if I bounced off a mountain, as I would be if I were in a state of the art Level-D sim. This gate-keeping is all very ridiculous.