This thread stinks of like a dairy farm. The amount of cow waste I see being slung left and right. The funny thing about it is that the folks who consider themselves the hardest of the hardcore and hold the sim to the highest standard, are the ones displaying the highest levels of ignorance. I haven't been on Avsim very long but those of you familiar with me know that I love a good argument but I'm tired and bored of this. Some people just want to see the sim burn. Makes no sense wasting the energy on folks like that because they hardly ever admit it when they're wrong.

Asobo is doing a fantastic job especially considering this is their first crack at creating a sim that is bringing us into the modern era.

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

You don't put the bar very high as no other sim offers a default LW 😏 .

I was referring to a poster who stated virtually every other flight sim has better weather depiction than MSFS.  As much as I agree with you that MSFS live weather is not where I want it to be, I still contend it is better than what is currently offered in other available flight simulators.  But you are correct.  The bar has been set quite low 😉

 

Edited January 28, 20224 yr by PlumCrazy

8 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

MS/Asobo have a LONG LONG LONG way to go before they appeal to me as a hard core simmer ... and no, what "I want" as a hard core simmer will not fix into the limitations of XBOX memory and I have no desire to wait 5 more years for the XBOX to evolve it's hardware to adequate memory capacity.

• If MS/Asobo was for hard core simmers, then why was their no real working SDK on release day?
• If MS/Asobo was for hard core simmers, then why is it 2 years later and we still don't have a complex aircraft available?
• If MS/Asobo was for hard core simmers, this post wouldn't exist in the first place.
• If MS/Asobo was for hard core simmers my RSG 530 and GTN 750 would be fully functional and integrated by now.
• If MS/Asobo was for hard core simmers, I'd have undocked multi-monitor support by now.
• If MS/Asobo was for hard core simmers why is AI traffic worse than it was in FSX?
• If MS/Asobo was for hard core simmers why are weather transitions still not working and not accurate?
• If MS/Asobo was for hard core simmers why is ATC worse than it was in FSX?
• If MS/Asobo was for hard core simmers, why does winds aloft enroute not impact fuel usage accurately?

And list continues ... MSFS is not for hard core simmers ... and why would it be??  Hard core simmers are a small market not financially viable for MS projects.

Cheers, Rob.

It really sounds like sour grapes Rob.  MSFS never was ONLY for HC simmers, right?  Of course.  Point by point:

I routinely witness VRAM/SysRAM amounts in use far in excess of XBox Series X's total 16Gb of memory for VRAM/SysRAM.  Performance relative to visual complexity is nothing short of earth-shattering compared to what you refer to as the other 'hard-core sims'.   

• Because all along their FIRST priority was to make this work for BOTH PC, and XBOX.  The first massively critical priority was to get cloud-based streaming scenery to work w/ both platforms and tackle performance as well.  They get an A++ rating for doing this as well as they did.
• It's not '2y later' for starters, and moreover, we already have some complex aircraft available, and will have more in the months to come.   Again, the big picture demanded tackling streaming scenery w/ excellent performance on an wide array of hardware capabilities.  The SDK continues to evolve from what I read.
• All of your other points are subsumed under the basic requirement in the big picture:  make it work on a wide variety of hardware including Xbox.  AI Traffic, ATC, winds aloft, multimonitor suppert--all of these are absolutely minor compared to the primary first step, and can be manipulated and tuned now very likely with minimal performance impacts. 

Your entire post would make sense if MS/A's goal was only to support the HC niche, but it never was.  It would have been idiotic for MS/A to start out with a duplicate of FSX/P3D using what, land-class based scenery?  and then add streaming scenery?   In fact I can't imagine how they could have done it any other way than is being done right now.  

This thread is wrong. There this assumption that Xbox user don't care about aerodynamics and flight models ?  This is what's wrong with AVSIM, they see console users only has "gamer". This whole mentality that xbox users are 2nd class citizen, GTA flyer is 100% wrong. If you would hang around xbox user, you would see that they care a lot of realism and simulation. There are no different than PC users. Yes they may not have access to mods like on PC but simming is a state of mind.  I've seen as many PC users who uses MSFS just for virtual tourism. There is nothing wrong with that. We have to stop Gatekeeping our hobby. This mentality has to end.

  

3 hours ago, turbomax said:

just comment on Rob Ainscough's post, and poof, this thread is gone. anyone?

Shhh! I was just reading this thread and being thankful that no one had chosen to rise to his bait.  Maybe we've finally learned here that bothering to engage with Ainscough is like kryptonite for threads.  I hope you don't jinx it...

 

5 minutes ago, Noel said:

It really sounds like sour grapes Rob.

Gosh darn it.  😞

Edited January 28, 20224 yr by DeepestRed

Rob hopefully would be the first to admit his disallusionment w/ Asobo stemming from his relationship with them during the initial beta, or at least that was how I read his comments early on, and my sense is this flavors his opinions about the entire project.  This being said, if I were to waltz back to the Xplane subforum, and post something like what Rob posted here, I may well be given yet another warning or another holiday!  And yet I never ever dissed XP, I only went their to share information with some there who haven't even used MSFS, yet have strong  negative opinions about it.  If this is all it takes to shut this thread down, so be it. 

1 hour ago, Krakin said:

This thread stinks of like a dairy farm. The amount of cow waste I see being slung left and right.

and some people like to smell it or hang around it. 😀

5 minutes ago, Noel said:

Your entire post would make sense if MS/A's goal was only to support the HC niche, but it never was.  It would have been idiotic for MS/A to start out with a duplicate of FSX/P3D using what, land-class based scenery?  

I would even go so far to state the huge success of the Microsoft Flight Simulator Series has been based on it's scalability. It has been allowing the newcomer a low entry threshold as a GA pilot but has been extensible to provide those who want a way to become an airliner captain within the same ecosystem

Yes, I still recall my first unfortunate landings in Meigs with FS4 when I didn't even know what that ball gauge and a VOR are for.

There have been procedure trainers and flight games all the time with none of them showing that flexibility. MS did alright to build upon that success, and those in doubt can be sure extensions at the upper end beyond what we already have will come within the next couple of years.

Kind regards, Michael

7 minutes ago, Noel said:

This being said, if I were to waltz back to the Xplane subforum, and post something like what Rob posted here, I may well be given yet another warning or another holiday!

Yes.   I've been a lurker on Avsim for many years, at various times spending a lot of time in the P3D, XP, and MSFS subfora.   And I've had the feeling for some time that Obvious Trolls get a lot more leeway when they come in here with anti-MSFS views than they would be given if they were invading other, longer-established subfora.   I know the mods have a really hard and often thankless job, and on the whole I think they do it well, but sometimes I feel like that's a blind spot that hurts discussion here.

(And at the same time as I say this, I realize I'm dragging the discussion even further afield and contributing to the problem, so I'll stop there.  😄 )

 

4 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

This thread is wrong. There this assumption that Xbox user don't care about aerodynamics and flight models ?  This is what's wrong with AVSIM, they see console users only has "gamer". This whole mentality that xbox users are 2nd class citizen, GTA flyer is 100% wrong. If you would hang around xbox user, you would see that they care a lot of realism and simulation. There are no different than PC users. Yes they may not have access to mods like on PC but simming is a state of mind.  I've seen as many PC users who uses MSFS just for virtual tourism. There is nothing wrong with that. We have to stop Gatekeeping our hobby. This mentality has to end.

I agree with you on the main point. Reading the official forum I see a lot of Xbox users genuinely interested by flight simulation. They remind me of us decades ago. Having fun and  eager to learn. And I am kind of upset when one recommends dumbing the sim to get them hooked long term. How stupid ! 

 I don’t agree however when you put us all at Avsim in the same bag. This has become now a detestable habit. Avsim this, Avsim that. We are negative, we are  gatekeepers,  we are grumpy old farts stuck in the past and whatnot. This auto-flagellation which borders masochism has to stop too. Avsim is not an entity, it is a multinational forum of various adult people.

Edited January 28, 20224 yr by Dominique_K

1 minute ago, DeepestRed said:

I know the mods have a really hard and often thankless job, and on the whole I think they do it well

I wholeheartedly agree--they're only human and it's a thankless job to be a policeman.

37 minutes ago, Noel said:

It really sounds like sour grapes ROB.

More like fear and desperation I'd say.

ns

18 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I agree with you on the main point. Reading the official forum I see a lot of Xbox users genuinely interested by flight simulation. They remind me of us decades ago. Having fun and  eager to learn. And I am kind of upset when one recommends dumbing the sim to get them hooked long term. How stupid ! 

 I don’t agree however when you put us all at Avsim in the same bag. This has become now a detestable habit. Avsim this, Avsim that. We are negative, were have gatekeepers,  we are grumpy old farts stuck in the past and whatnot. This auto-flagellation which borders masochism has to stop too. Avsim is not an entity, it is a multinational forum of various adult people.

Every single day I see gatekeeping post. I know it's a mix of individuals but they is a general view that xbox users are below pc users. This needs to stop. Avsim is at the forefront of this mentality. I know it's a generalization and doesn't apply to everyone but you cannot fix a problem if you don't acknowledge it's existence. 

The fact that people quite freely dump on xbox users does upset me somewhat... not a console player, but surely more simmers in general is a good thing right?

Like, why do they have to be casual simmers just because its the game system they got into? or happen to own? a high end gaming pc is super expensive... Plus there are console compatible yokes pedals and throttles out/coming out.

As a small community we should embrace EVERYONE interested, not look down our noses at people we consider 'less'...

I welcome the console aviators to our world... more of us, means more developers, more peripherals, more simulators, more support. Never a bad thing.

By the end of this year, you'll be able to fly through a cloud and leave it spinning in a vortex behind you. I don't care what you say, that's pretty hard-core.