1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

 

But I see thats still not good enought for some of you. Because they not going to be the most "objective"....really....could not make it up. 

The only negative thing I have heard from the Beta testers is they are not allowed to stream the Fenix on Youtube or Twitch due to NDA. They are happy flying it on Vatsim, IvAO, Pilotedge etc without problems not like all the other airliners (less the MaddogX) in MSFS at the moment. If some folks sit back a listen to these quotes from these streamers some times "just a few minutes" they would get an idea how serious this project is.

Edited May 4, 20224 yr by jbdbow1970

27 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

I agree with this.

The only "objective source" for me is the guy who bought this with his own money and does a review. Then, there's another honest abe review, then another....and that gives you the basis for making your own informed decision.

As I've already said: The "study level" FlybyWire is out right now, so why even spend a minute thinking about a plane who may or not come out in the near future.

FBW Study Level, whut? Even Fenix don't claim to reach that level.

3 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

FBW Study Level, whut? Even Fenix don't claim to reach that level.

“Study level” is a largely meaningless, invented term that is widely mocked in other parts of the internet (I’m talking about you, Reddit).

But insofar as it has any meaning, from what we know the Fenix would certainly fall in this category.

I note Justflight actually claiming their Bae-146 is “study level” on their website. Controversial in view of that plane’s FMC…

I’ve seen people saying this week that Randazzo invented the term back in the day as a form of marketing. Not sure if that’s true, if he didn’t then it was likely coined by someone here on the Avsim forums. Either way, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have an FAA-approved definition!

As it may well have originated around these parts, I figure as an Avsim member I can declare which FSX/P3D/MSFS airliner sims are “study level”. The answer is: PMDG 737/747/777, FSL A320, Fenix A320, Leonardo Maddog and the under-rated Majestic Q400. 

🙂

Edited May 4, 20224 yr by OzWhitey

3 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

“Study level” is a largely meaningless, invented term that is widely mocked in other parts of the internet (I’m talking about you, Reddit).

But insofar as it has any meaning, from what we know the Fenix would certainly fall in this category.

I note Justflight actually claiming their Bae-146 is “study level” on their website. Controversial in view of that plane’s FMC…

I’ve seen people saying this week that Randazzo invented the term back in the day as a form of marketing. Not sure if that’s true, if he didn’t then it was likely coined by someone here on the Avsim forums. Either way, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have an FAA-approved definition!

As is may well have originated around these parts, I figure as an Avsim member I can declare which FSX/P3D/MSFS airliner sims are “study level”. The answer is: PMDG 737/747/777, FSL A320, Fenix A320, Leonardo Maddog and the under-rated Majestic Q400. 

🙂

studylevel is used by people who dont fly or never flown a real aircraft or marketing team of software devs. 

1 hour ago, OzWhitey said:

As is may well have originated around these parts, I figure as an Avsim member I can declare which FSX/P3D/MSFS airliner sims are “study level”. The answer is: PMDG 737/747/777, FSL A320, Fenix A320, Leonardo Maddog and the under-rated Majestic Q400. 

🙂

I agree, Even with 1000/2000+ hours in the FLS A320, I think the FENIX with it being ProSim could well surpass what IMHO is the best moden airliner for a sim ever made.

2 Weeks ago i started to use for the first time the FBW exp version and I have to say for free software I was blown away. IMO its far better than the Aerosoft version ever was. I really enjoy it, sure its no FSL but it free updated all the time and for what it is....a good level, its very good, worth paying for. When I downloaded it I never thought it was going to be as good as it is.

2 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

The only negative thing I have heard from the Beta testers is they are not allowed to stream the Fenix on Youtube or Twitch due to NDA. They are happy flying it on Vatsim, IvAO, Pilotedge etc without problems not like all the other airliners (less the MaddogX) in MSFS at the moment. If some folks sit back a listen to these quotes from these streamers some times "just a few minutes" they would get an idea how serious this project is.

cheewy has made big hints that a show case stream is coming... He  has alway said its the best aircraft he has even known in a sim and have no reason to think he is talking hype.

I personly like they (Fenix)have not said much, it problerly means they have there heads down working away.

Edited May 4, 20224 yr by Nyxx

35 minutes ago, wiler said:

studylevel is used by people who dont fly or never flown a real aircraft or marketing team of software devs. 

it's a big debate and it's down to person interpretation.

A lot of toy airctaft are out there, Just how does one title an aircraft that has the depth of lets say a FSL/MadDog etc, when everything has to be set up right and is as close to the real thing you can get/buy for a sim in windows, where you do have to study to use it, or you just wont get anywhere.

So I have no probelm with the term "study level" seems some get there knickers in a twist over it, but hey! 

Or should we just have tiers?, S tier for the very best A tier B etc would that be better? DCS modules are normaly rated like that. if "study level" offended people!

 

Edited May 4, 20224 yr by Nyxx

1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

I agree, Even with 1000/2000+ hours in the FLS A320, I think the FENIX with it being ProSim could well surpass what IMHO is the best moden airliner for a sim ever made.

2 Weeks ago i started to use for the first time the FBW exp version and I have to say for free software I was blown away. IMO its far better than the Aerosoft version ever was. I really enjoy it, sure its no FSL but it free updated all the time and for what it is....a good level, its very good, worth paying for. When I downloaded it I never thought it was going to be as good as it is.

cheewy has made big hints that a show case stream is coming... He  has alway said its the best aircraft he has even known in a sim and have no reason to think he is talking hype.

I personly like they (Fenix)have not said much, it problerly means they have there heads down working away.

I was watching the stream when someone asked which is the best aircraft he has flown, and as you say he responded with  The Fenix without doubt. Lets just hope it does live up to the hype.....

Edited May 4, 20224 yr by Car147

3 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

FBW Study Level, whut? Even Fenix don't claim to reach that level.

You did notice that I put the term study level between inverted commas, right?

Of course, the term study level is completely meaningless and is purely a marketing term.

What I am simply saying is that a highly advanced simulation of an Airbus A320 can be enjoyed right now, or you can continue to waste time speculating, wondering, reading tea leaves, or consulting the Delphi oracle.

Your choice.

Not sure why some here are delving into pitting 3PD aircrafts against each other... yes quite obviously the fantastic FBW A320 can be enjoyed now, and long into the future... anticipating a payware high fidelity A320 soon to come, going by actual current facts that all point to it being something special based on detailed video previews and writeups (https://fenixsim.com/blog/), the professional systems simulation code it's based on (ProSim), what reputable testers and IRL pilots are saying who already have access to the beta, etc et.. sorry no, all this is not reading tea leaves or speculating.. and doing all of this is also *not* saying that the FBW can't be enjoyed now :S ... here's a novel thought: how about praising the merits of both?

And contrary to what some here might like us to believe, the likes of IRL pilots and simmers like Katie, Blackbox, Chewwy, Fabio are *not* going to intentionally lie and put out false praise.. if anything, due to the closed beta, they might be mum about current issues/defects. In fact, these testers are very likely to be pushing Fenix to fix all sorts of issues no matter how corner-case or esoteric, the net effect being a more polished product.  One IRL pilot and simmer whose preview/review I'll be carefully looking at is https://www.youtube.com/c/320SimPilot, that is sure to be an unbiased a review as any.

Edited May 4, 20224 yr by lwt1971

6 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Not sure why some here are delving into pitting 3PD aircrafts against each other... yes quite obviously the fantastic FBW A320 can be enjoyed now, and long into the future... anticipating a payware high fidelity A320 soon to come, going by actual current facts that all point to it being something special based on detailed video previews and writeups (https://fenixsim.com/blog/), the professional systems simulation code it's based on (ProSim), what reputable testers and IRL pilots are saying who already have access to the beta, etc et.. sorry no, all this is not reading tea leaves or speculating.. and doing all of this is also *not* saying that the FBW can't be enjoyed now :S ... here's a novel thought: how about praising the merits of both?

And contrary to what some here might like us to believe, the likes of IRL pilots and simmers like Katie, Blackbox, Chewwy, Fabio are *not* going to intentionally lie and put out false praise.. if anything, due to the closed beta, they might be mum about current issues/defects. In fact, these testers are very likely to be pushing Fenix to fix all sorts of issues no matter how corner-case or esoteric, the net effect being a more polished product.  One IRL pilot and simmer whose preview/review I'll be carefully looking at is https://www.youtube.com/c/320SimPilot, that is sure to be an unbiased a review as any.

I‘m curious to where someone said they were intentionally lying? Mind showing the quote? Otherwise it‘s someone else intentionally lying, if I may say so…

I am looking to coninue using both the FBW and Fenix going forward, using each type to replicate the actual flight and aircraft being used on that flight.

I find it strange and interesting that most of the skepticism seems to be directed Katie's way. She's the RW A320 pilot. Chewwy isn't one but his excitement seems to be getting more of a pass from the skeptics. Hmmmmmmm

Re this entire discussion.. I hope some of you blokes put as much time and effort into flight simming as

some of you do in engaging in absolute trivia and gossip.

.Just sayin'

 

9 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

I absolutely agree with the checklist stuff, but as long as it has a turnaround mode / saved panel state (buttons/switches as I left them) and some random failure mode, there is still plenty of reason to do the checklist. Did they say something about that?

Random failure mode is also know as service based failures which was mentioned in the reveal Q&A not to be a thing, and like everything not implemented, the devs will not answer you if you ask about it right now.

2 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Of course, the term study level is completely meaningless and is purely a marketing term.

During the Flight Sim Expo 2021, TFDI called their MD-11, beyond study level...

It reminds me years ago when a laundry detergent brand's ad said it would wash your white cloths whiter than white, like it was a brand new color...