I’m interested in the pros/cons of the Kodiak vs the Caravan EX.

On one hand, it sounds like the Kodiak is a study level aircraft… but it also sounds like a real chore to trim/fly. On the other hand, the Caravan with mods is less sophisticated, but potentially less frustrating as a sight-seeing plane. 

I like realism, but I don’t want to be frustrated or so preoccupied with aviating that I don’t have a chance to enjoy the scenery.

Thoughts on pros/cons for both of these for VFR sight-seeing duty?

Note that cost is not so much a factor, but if it’s clear the Kodiak is not a good choice, I’d rather put the money into something else. 

Edited July 24, 20223 yr by Virtual-Chris

I have both. Kodiak is excellent; however, I love steam version from JF Black Square. It's kind of ironic IRL I prefer glass, but in sim I enjoy steam 🙂

Caravan.

15 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

the Kodiak is a study level aircraft… but it also sounds like a real chore to trim/fly.

 

15 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

if it’s clear the Kodiak is not a good choice

The SWS Kodiak appears to me to be in the Top 5 GA aircraft for MSFS respectfully along with the Hjet, Milviz Cessna 310R, and FlySimWare's Cessna 414AW (leaving the 5th to arguments, LOL!)  Each of those fits into a different purpose/niche (speed, altitude, range, purpose).  I would not be without any. 

The Caravan EX is just as unique in character and purpose.   I have not snagged the Caravan EX yet, and will not until I have a planned trek that requires the Caravan size and capacity.

What is your flying style, where are your destinations, and what are the characteristics of your destination airports?

Edited July 24, 20223 yr by fppilot

I haven't had any any issues flying the Kodiak. Trim seemed fine to me.  I don't manually start my planes I just start with the engines running so not sure about startup. 

42 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Thoughts on pros/cons for both of these for VFR sight-seeing duty?

For that purpose, I use the RV14A.. 😉

The Kodiak is a bush plane, and coupled with tundra tires, it does that job very well..

1 hour ago, Virtual-Chris said:

I like realism, but I don’t want to be frustrated or so preoccupied with aviating that I don’t have a chance to enjoy the scenery.

I find the Kodiak excellent for sightseeing. It’s not hard to handle, and although it does need some rudder trim to stay perfectly coordinated, that’s not a necessity. It comes with the excellent Working Title NXi G1000, has great short field capabilities and is no slouch in cruise. 

When I want something faster I choose the default TBM, although I much prefer the G1000 to the G3000.

1 hour ago, fppilot said:

 

The SWS Kodiak appears to me to be in the Top 5 GA aircraft for MSFS respectfully along with the Hjet, Milviz Cessna 310R, and FlySimWare's Cessna 414AW (leaving the 5th to arguments, LOL!)  Each of those fits into a different purpose/niche (speed, altitude, range, purpose).  I would not be without any. 

The Caravan EX is just as unique in character and purpose.   I have not snagged the Caravan EX yet, and will not until I have a planned trek that requires the Caravan size and capacity.

What is your flying style, where are your destinations, and what are the characteristics of your destination airports?

I’m referring to the Caravan included in the Sim. I flew it exclusively for GA sight seeing when I was flying back about 18 months ago. I’m coming back to the sim and disappointed the turboprop and prop flight modelling really hasn’t improved. So I’m considering the Kodiak  if it doesn’t require so much care and attention that it becomes frustrating and counter productive for sight seeing. I would use it the way I was using the Caravan… for sight seeing, Bush operations, and other short runway ops where I can’t fly the FBW 32NX. 

36 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

I’m referring to the Caravan included in the Sim. I flew it exclusively for GA sight seeing when I was flying back about 18 months ago. I’m coming back to the sim and disappointed the turboprop and prop flight modelling really hasn’t improved. So I’m considering the Kodiak  if it doesn’t require so much care and attention that it becomes frustrating and counter productive for sight seeing. I would use it the way I was using the Caravan… for sight seeing, Bush operations, and other short runway ops where I can’t fly the FBW 32NX. 

If you are looking for something better than the default Caravan, and not looking for too complex, you might take a look at the Carenado Cessna 337.  Great model for sightseeing/observation.  Can fly low and slow.  And speed up dramatically (170 kts +) to get from one scenic site/destination to the next!  It can be configured for either a GNS or GTN GPS. It is a four seater and quite nimble.

 

Edited July 25, 20223 yr by fppilot

35 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

I’m referring to the Caravan included in the Sim. I flew it exclusively for GA sight seeing when I was flying back about 18 months ago. I’m coming back to the sim and disappointed the turboprop and prop flight modelling really hasn’t improved. So I’m considering the Kodiak  if it doesn’t require so much care and attention that it becomes frustrating and counter productive for sight seeing. I would use it the way I was using the Caravan… for sight seeing, Bush operations, and other short runway ops where I can’t fly the FBW 32NX. 

There is a patch due out shortly to fix a few minor issues.

In summary though:

The engine modelling is good.  For example the PT6A in the caravan does not behave like a turbo prop. Last time I looked the mouse over for the current C208 Caravan condition lever even says “mixture” not “condition”. If you accidently introduce fuel early or forget to turn on igniters before introducing fuel in real life that is a hot start and potentially up to million dollars for a rebuild of the hot section. The Caravan just starts. In the Kodiak if you get the start sequence wrong ITT rockets up and you get a hot start and broken engine.

With regard to FM. The Caravan FM is patchy, it even had fake spoilers acting as speed brakes at one stage though that is now fixed (the real Caravan has Spoilerons not spoilers).  The only FM related issue the Kodiak some (not all) users seem to have is with pitch control:

• in some cases it is just user error, for example on take off you need to set the appropriate torque for altitude and weight (not just firewall the throttle) and ease off the ground and keep pitch under about 10 degrees till speed hits maybe 80-90 kts. That is realistic for 750 HP,  a huge prop and lots of elevator authority - though admittedly if your pitch sensitivity is too high you may have trouble “easing back on the yoke”
• the devs said early on that pitch control was adjusted for long throw yokes like the Yoko or Fulcrum, not combat joysticks and they originally said just soften the profile for the Kodiak. Some users see this as a bug rather than design decision. They have since announced they will change the default profile in a patch due out shortly to be more of a compromise.

Note that the pitch issues are related to the default control sensitivity and do not seem to anything to do with the FM itself. People tend to get very vocal about it though.

Other issues - a few people also have issues with the G1000/G1000NXI missing a few real-life features but these are default Asobo instruments so not really a fault in the aircraft as such. I believe the new patch may be adding some of the missing items like trim indicators to the default Asobo instruments. I also recall some complaints about AP misbehaving, but again I pretty sure these are Asobo AP issues you get in quite a few aircraft.

Significantly the Kodiak still tops the MSFS Forum Top 5 aircraft thread.

Edited July 25, 20223 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

I've got a couple hundred hours in the SWS Kodiak. I've tried to like the Caravan with and w/out mods but vastly prefer the Kodiak. It's only got a few things you have to be careful about, and is easy to fly if you just pay a small amount of attention to those things (pitch/speed at takeoff and proper start sequence as Glenn pointed out).

I think the view out the cockpit windows is better in the Kodiak too.

From the videos I've watched it definitely seems like there's a lot of attention that needs to be paid to the rudder trim.  Clumsy's video also noted that it was incredibly unusual to get a nice smooth take-off... I think he was expecting to have more issues with pitch control. LOL. He pointed out that there's no indicator for horizontal stabilizer trim on the G1000 so the devs had to put a mark on the wheel.  But that was months ago... has that been addressed yet?

I really like the immersive aspects of adding people and cargo and the effect on the weights and center of gravity.

Black Squares's Caravan might be worth a look. At 41:00, Into the Blue shows up the radio option choices available.

 

Have flown the modded Caravan a fair bit, very good as a free option.

Kodiak is more challenging to fly without a doubt, but I find it more rewarding at the same time. Cockpit view is much better in the Kodiak, as side windows are much bigger - so better/easier to enjoy the scenery.

 

For the price the Kodiak is well worth it!

 

G

And I’m sure the OP doesn’t plan on hand flying it for hours upon hours. It can be a bit of a handful during takeoff roll, but there’s no point in not activating the autopilot above xxx(x) ft AGL.

Edited July 25, 20223 yr by Cpt_Piett