29 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

What nonsense?

I think there's a lack of understanding here.  What was originally claimed was that PMDG wouldn't model an openable cockpit door for security reasons.  That's simply incorrect.

What they said was, they wouldn't accurately model the security mechanism on the door, for security reasons.  Because yes, if they did, then folks could use a video game to learn how it worked.  This would obviously be ridiculous.

This same system exists on Airbuses, but I'm willing to bet Fenix has not modeled it.  How do you open the door in the Fenix?  Do you just click on the knob?

Do you honestly think you just turn the knob to open the door in reality, in the post-9/11 world?

OK  I see your point but none of these addons should not be  taking seriously. They are not even "Study Level" but "High Fidelity" and I get that but RWP coming in here saying who's the best dont justify anything.

Bottom line PMDG is living in the past. New Blood is in town to challenge whether we like it or not and hiring MK on their team serve no purpose not in 2024 .

Edited March 6, 20242 yr by JBDB-MD80

3 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

I'm still trying to understand what folks are having trouble with, about this.  Are you honestly suggesting that security sensitive operations should be modeled in a video game?

Agree that the security-relevant aspects of the door locking system should not be modeled.

At the same time, though, I would very much hope that this system does not rely on security through obscurity. It's possible to design systems such that they are secure even though all of their implementation details are publicly known. The bad guys know how the door locking system works anyway -- there are far too many airline pilots all over the world to keep this information a secret. That's not to say that this information should be made freely available, but it should be assumed that it is known.

To use a quote from the Wikipedia article (from 1851): "Rogues are very keen in their profession, and know already much more than we can teach them."

Edit: The article on Kerckhoff's principle has another nice quote: "In other words — design your system assuming that your opponents know it in detail. (A former official at NSA's National Computer Security Center told me that the standard assumption there was that serial number 1 of any new device was delivered to the Kremlin.)["

Edited March 6, 20242 yr by martinboehme

Agreed... There are layers, as in any security system. Some are carrier specific, and some just... Are.  Really, none of it is a big deal... I was just pointing out that when Robert said he wouldn't model aspects of the door, he was talking about this stuff, not about just making the door open.

I really don't know what the rest of that was about... About who's "best" or "justifying" something?  But whatever, I think we've clarified what needed clarifying.

Could be a good idea to lock this thread for mental security reasons.

This thread is going sideways.

Is LAF (Load Alleviation Function) something that is built in to the aircraft's avionics or is it something that is activated in the cockpit?

11 minutes ago, El Diablito said:

Is LAF (Load Alleviation Function) something that is built in to the aircraft's avionics or is it something that is activated in the cockpit?

It's part of the flight control system and not something that pilots can directly influence:

https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/506905-a320-laf-load-alleviation-function-re-introduced.html

23 hours ago, DAD said:

welcome first of all. did you get a response from Fenix by now? Any further advice is difficult not knowing your individual setup. like which MSFS version do you use, MS Store, Steam? Also, did you install MSFS in the default location or some individual location like another drive? IIRC the fenix installs into the MSFS/community folder. do you see it there? sorry, away from my PC so no further details

Hello, thank you for responding. I have received a response but it has not solved anything for me. I use the Microsoft version, I have the game installed on a different disk than C and Fenix in its default path. I can see the installation in the community folder, and I also use Addon Linker. The entire package has worked fine until the update. Finally, I believe that to update I did not have to uninstall the previous version. Greetings

2 minutes ago, martinboehme said:

It's part of the flight control system and not something that pilots can directly influence:

https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/506905-a320-laf-load-alleviation-function-re-introduced.html

That's what I thought, that it was built into the systems. I asked because I saw it mentioned that a pilot can activate if needed.

It's annoying enough that you can't have a single PMDG discussion that doesn't turn into a complaint fest. But it's ridiculous that people will even turn a Fenix thread into a PMDG complaint thread while not even knowing what they're talking about, just to rain on PMDG again. For the sake of the forum, please get a grip.

6 hours ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Bottom line PMDG is living in the past. New Blood is in town to challenge whether we like it or not and hiring MK on their team serve no purpose not in 2024 .

Good old PMDG bashing is alive and well on this forum, that's for sure.

3 hours ago, Claudius_ said:

Could be a good idea to lock this thread for mental security reasons.

Talk about door access got me thinking about Germanwings 9525, where the captain went to the loo, and unfortunately didn't have enough time, axe, fire extinguisher? to get back into the cockpit. 

Speaking of loos one could simulate the sound of the whoosh when one flushes, or the light flickering and only turning on properly when you've fully secured the latch (on the lav door). There are a lot of things one could simulate before getting into details of cockpit door access, maybe more outside walkaround preflight items in more detail would be good.

Overall I like as much realism as possible, but top priority would still be the plain old flight characteristics, flight controls free and correct, flaps, etc. taking any plane big or small for a spin, simple traffic patterns, stalls, engine failures etc. All those tablets, efb's, FMC's and such are secondary. Ha! Making fun of PMDG. But with greater demand for detail, I could picture them putting which type of toothbrush or eyeshades in the ammenity kit in the equipment options in the FMC.

1 hour ago, threexgreen said:

It's annoying enough that you can't have a single PMDG discussion that doesn't turn into a complaint fest. But it's ridiculous that people will even turn a Fenix thread into a PMDG complaint thread while not even knowing what they're talking about, just to rain on PMDG again. For the sake of the forum, please get a grip.

It always reminds of the great Randy Travis song with these lines...

As long as old men sit and talk about the weather
As long as old women sit and talk about old men

Then the chorus...and the title of the song:

Forever and ever, amen

We can now add PMDG Derangement Syndrome to this list of things that are inevitable in life:  Death and Taxes, and PDS 

16 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Regarding security features around the cockpit door: yes, Robert did say they'd never actually model the operation of the door - not that it would never just click to open.  There are elements of the door security mechanism that are visually modeled in the PMDG if you know what you're looking at - because these things are openly visible to pax when the door is open - but their operation will never be modeled.

I could be wrong but has anybody ever asked for the security mechanism of the PMDG 737's door to be modelled?   I think PMDG have created a strawman here.  "We'll make it sound all high level and that we're impeded from adding something, because of sEcUrItY".

All I would ever like to see in the PMDG, is the door opening, when an area somewhere proximate to the 'super secret door handle' is clicked.  In fact scrub that, the door could open if you click anywhere on the door.  Or perhaps if you click on the F/O's banana, in his lunch box.

You know, just an opening door....

Edited March 6, 20242 yr by JYW