Please a $20.- upgrade for me with a simple update.

 

5 hours ago, Mike44 said:

Please a $20.- upgrade for me with a simple update.

 

It's a whole new product, they're not going to give existing owners a discount.

At least nothing that big.

Edited May 1, 20242 yr by Tuskin38

Looking back through my records I see I paid £110 for all the bells and whistles back in 2020; less than £30 a year. Nowadays that would be £135 adjusting for inflation. Personally, I fully intend to get the equivalent version when 2024 comes out although I'll wait a few months before buying it to get the worst of the bugs out of the way, not to mention missing most other people bringing the download servers to a crawl

6 hours ago, Mike44 said:

Please a $20.- upgrade for me with a simple update.

 

You want to spend $20 dollars on what they're calling the biggest undertaking in flight sim history? Lol

1 minute ago, Krakin said:

You want to spend $20 dollars on what they're calling the biggest undertaking in flight sim history? Lol

Better to stay with MSFS 2020 and go out for a Big Mac Happy Meal. 😉

28 minutes ago, SamYeager said:

Looking back through my records I see I paid £110 for all the bells and whistles back in 2020;

I only got the standard version, which I think was 70 dollars, and I have used the game extensively for 4 years, so less than $20.00 per year. Given that I have flown for 500 hours (0.14 cents per hour) and had many other enjoyable hours looking around and learning about aircraft, airports and, recently, weather, I do not think it could be a better value. Not to mention that the title has received constant updates and attention and built a good sized community around it, for our niche hobby. Yes, some of those udpates broke things, some of them introduced retrogression, but overall my experience has bent upwards over these past 4 years. I am more than happy to pay another 70 or 80 dollars for another two or three or four years, to support Asobo and invest in the continual development of the hobby. And probably this time I will get the Premium Deluxe version.

Wonderful thread! Almost as good as the mobs moaning about MS2020 before it was released!

22 hours ago, Tuskin38 said:

They said we'd get Navblue charts for 2020, but it never happened..

All of this, including the new airline careers, makes me fully expect we are going to get charts and updated Navdata in FS 2024. It's pretty much guaranteed.

1 hour ago, Greazer said:

All of this, including the new airline careers, makes me fully expect we are going to get charts and updated Navdata in FS 2024. It's pretty much guaranteed.

We already have regularly updated Nav data in FS2020. I assume that will continue in FS2024.

 Charts are another matter. It might be possible to provide FAA NOS charts for the USA because those can be downloaded for free. For the rest of the world, the sim cannot provide current real world charts, because all three providers of current r/w charts - Jeppesen, Lufthansa (LIDO) and NavBlue, charge money for them, even for flight simulation use.

MS has no current business relationship with Jeppesen or Lufthansa. Jeppesen is already partnered with Navigraph, and Lufthansa is partnered with Aerosoft. I assume those partnerships have an exclusivity clause, so Jeppesen (for example) could not provide charts directly to MSFS because their existing partnership with Navigraph would preclude that. Same with Lufthansa and Aerosoft.

MS does have a partnership with NavBlue. When FS2020 first released, it was stated that NavBlue charts would be added to the sim at some point, but that never happened. I suspect the reason it did not happen was because NavBlue would have expected MS to pay for each and every MSFS customer using NavBlue charts. Their charts product is not the sort of thing that they (NavBlue) would give away for free. That would have led to MS having to institute a monthly subscription model for charts- something that MS probably does not want to do.

I’m sure MS pays NavBlue for the AIRAC updates they provide, but the cost is probably low enough that MS can absorb it without having to pass it along to end users. Charts are another matter. I’m not saying that real-world charts could not be included in FS2024, but if they are, they will be an extra-cost option. and they would have to come from NavBlue.

However, there is another option, and that would be for MSFS to construct charts “on the fly” using the sim’s own nav data,  the way that the Aivlasoft EFB has long done. The resulting charts are not 100 percent the same as the real-world equivalents, but certainly would be “close enough” for in-sim IFR use.

Interestingly, the Aivlasoft developer announced just this week that the product is being discontinued, and will no longer be sold or supported going forward. It could be that the developer simply isn’t getting enough revenue anymore to keep it going, or he simply wants to retire.

But… maybe… (and this is pure speculation on my part), MS has purchased or licensed the “on the fly charts” technology from Aivlasoft for use in FS2024. If so, part of the purchase agreement might be that Aivlasoft cease selling it as a stand-alone product. If so, I’m sure that Aivlasoft would be unable to talk about it - at least at this time.

Again, this is just a wild a** guess, and might be completely wrong - but it would be one way to get charts into the sim without having to enter into long-term agreements with a r/w chart publisher, which would inevitably lead to monthly subscription costs for end users. 

Of course there are already a substantial number of MSFS users who have an existing Navigraph charts subscription and I’m sure Navigraph will continue offering their products for FS2024.

Edited May 2, 20242 yr by JRBarrett

2 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

For the rest of the world, the sim cannot provide current real world charts

Sorry, what?

https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/Publications/2024-04-18-AIRAC/html/index-en-GB.html

https://www.eurocontrol.int/articles/ais-online

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/dap/AeroProcChartsTOC.htm

 

Personally, I think charts would be an expensive addition to MSFS that only a niche* of flight simmers care about (*a small number of the 12m users of MSFS), plus they're already covered by Navigraph. There are other, wider appealing features that MS can get more bang for their buck, IMO.

Who knows what has happened with Avilasoft, but it doesn't sound like MS did a deal with them. We may find out when MSFS 2024(/5) launches.

If 2024 does not degrade VR from what it is now, then I'm in.

On 4/28/2024 at 3:40 PM, Greazer said:

Little Nav Map is showing it's age by now. Need a more modern planner that's fits the bill in 2024.

It is updated regularly by its creator Alex who is also extremely helpful on the dedicated forum here on Avsim. He is also receptive of suggestions. The app is absolutely overflowing with features. Its amazing that its freeware. Along with that other little gem Addons Linker; LNM is a hero product!

4 hours ago, F737MAX said:

Sorry, what?

https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/Publications/2024-04-18-AIRAC/html/index-en-GB.html

https://www.eurocontrol.int/articles/ais-online

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/dap/AeroProcChartsTOC.htm

 

Personally, I think charts would be an expensive addition to MSFS that only a niche* of flight simmers care about (*a small number of the 12m users of MSFS), plus they're already covered by Navigraph. There are other, wider appealing features that MS can get more bang for their buck, IMO.

Who knows what has happened with Avilasoft, but it doesn't sound like MS did a deal with them. We may find out when MSFS 2024(/5) launches.

Yes, many countries do provide charts through their national AIPC at no cost, but  it would be difficult to provide access from within a game like MSFS because of the many different URLs involved, differing formats etc. 

MS originally planned to offer NavBlue’s chart products in-game, but nothing came of it, probably because there would have been no way to do that without charging end-users a subscription fee. Navigraph has long had the market for r/w charts for flight simulation “sewn up” in any case for those willing to pay a subscription.

Using Aivlasoft’s technology (or something like it) would be one way to MS to offer “charts” in FS2024 (as a standard part of the sim) without incurring extra costs that would have to be passed on to end users.

5 hours ago, F737MAX said:

Sorry, what?

https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/Publications/2024-04-18-AIRAC/html/index-en-GB.html

https://www.eurocontrol.int/articles/ais-online

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/dap/AeroProcChartsTOC.htm

 

Personally, I think charts would be an expensive addition to MSFS that only a niche* of flight simmers care about (*a small number of the 12m users of MSFS), plus they're already covered by Navigraph. There are other, wider appealing features that MS can get more bang for their buck, IMO.

Who knows what has happened with Avilasoft, but it doesn't sound like MS did a deal with them. We may find out when MSFS 2024(/5) launches.

You've missunderstood what is actually provided in that first Link, you find any VFR Sectionals there.

You have to pay for such things in the UK and probably some other countries, also as Jim explained extracting the downloads from the various systems (some of which have dynamic links that change) is not trivial

 

13 minutes ago, Lonesome Cowboy Burt said:

You've missunderstood what is actually provided in that first Link, you find any VFR Sectionals there.

All the IFR charts you can want are there, from en-route charts to specific airports. For example, on the webpage sidebar, under Part 3 - Aerodromes (AD) --> AD 2 Aerodromes --> (e.g. EGLL) --> AD 2.24 Charts related to an aerodrome, you'll find all the charts for EGLL: ground movements, SIDs, STARs, initial approach procedures, RNAV arrivals, instrument approaches, and others.

 

49 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Navigraph has long had the market for r/w charts for flight simulation “sewn up” in any case for those willing to pay a subscription.

Using Aivlasoft’s technology (or something like it) would be one way to MS to offer “charts” in FS2024 (as a standard part of the sim) without incurring extra costs that would have to be passed on to end users.

I agree that Navigraph has the market to themselves (and I don't think it's healthy). Aerosoft's attempt failed and now Avilasoft has shut-up shop.

I just think that what with the focus of MSFS 2024 seemingly away from A-B airliner flights and more on 'flights with purpose' e.g. ag flying, medevac, sky crane ops, these type of flights have wider appeal. As such, I expect less focus / fewer resources will be spent on bringing charts to 2024, especially as there's already a solution (such as it costs) provided by Navigraph.