42 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

?  Not having issues with my DC6 - which I enjoy flying a great deal....

Yeah, I am confused myself. To be fair there was an odd oscillation issue in the past and I guess WTT worked with PMDG to figure it out. 

Still, such a fun plane to fly. I really like taking the time to start it up. One thing is missing: smoke during engine start. Tere is a mod for that though. It helps. 

 

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I don't think the DC6 in FSX has the issues that the MSFS version does. 

Which issues are these? 

I think the fact is simply that these old birds are very hard to fly. The reason that the Airbus types always sit at the top of the Vatsim and Volanta charts is simply because the high level of automation lends well to a desktop simulation. Ultimately if you’re flying single pilot looking at a 2D screen, all the help you can get is useful. 
 

The number of people using anything pre EFIS from the stats we can see is literally negligible. Devs are well aware of this…

Just Flight is working on the A300B4.

Is the MD82/83/88 to new to this list ? 🙂

 

Michael Moe

The thing with old airliners is, I'm a middle-aged man and yet I cannot remember any of those airliners. I never saw them in action, let alone been flying with one of them. I don't have any sort of memory or feeling towards them. Therefore I wouldn't even consider buying them. So how many buyers would these aircraft have? Very little I'm afraid.

That said I can see myself being 85 years old and ranting on Avsim about the fact that no dev considers doing a 747 for MSFS 2064 😄

2 hours ago, bennyboy75 said:

I think the fact is simply that these old birds are very hard to fly. The reason that the Airbus types always sit at the top of the Vatsim and Volanta charts is simply because the high level of automation lends well to a desktop simulation. Ultimately if you’re flying single pilot looking at a 2D screen, all the help you can get is useful. 

That could be solved by adding a virtual co-pilot to the aircraft, like the flight engineer that PMDG added to the DC-6. It'll be extra work off course but having someone do the calculations, engine start of flight planning can help learn the aircraft' systems on the fly, literally. That would actually be realistic since even the modern airliners require 2 pilots to operate safely.

7 hours ago, ckyliu said:

and another large cohort are "children of the magenta" who need a moving map and VNAV to feel comfortable.

The "Children of the Magenta" disparagement has been going on for over 25 years. People are a product of how they were taught in any given era of time.

If steam and analog gauges were the true mark of a pilot, or were better, then why are all aircraft produced today fitted with glass technology?

I was brought up in aviation on steam gauges - a DME or an autopilot were a luxury, and I can fly RW IFR on either system and I am sure which system I prefer these days.

Next thing people will be disparaging TCAS (or TCAD in GA aircraft), which to me is the one greatest safety protection to supplement a good lookout, which isn't infallible.

2 hours ago, bennyboy75 said:

I think the fact is simply that these old birds are very hard to fly. The reason that the Airbus types always sit at the top of the Vatsim and Volanta charts is simply because the high level of automation lends well to a desktop simulation. Ultimately if you’re flying single pilot looking at a 2D screen, all the help you can get is useful. 
 

The number of people using anything pre EFIS from the stats we can see is literally negligible. Devs are well aware of this…

Probably true if you want a real "study level" aircraft. But if you just want to be able to see them in your own sky and do no more than basic ctrl-e/up and away then a good looking but "basic systems" model would presumably be relative simple to produce (maybe from a previous sim version) and would certainly sell a few copies.

I wouldn't suggest CSim as a role model or anything as I think they're overpriced for what they are but I have bought their stuff and that's the sort of thing I'm talking about here. I've had plenty of fun flying around in their 777s and C130. If they put out a VC-10, DC-8 or any one of a number of other such aircraft they'd certainly shift a few. If anybody put out a well modelled Britannia with a flashy interior I'd buy it even if it had the flight model of a Cessna!

That would certainly take some studying! <grin>

8 hours ago, ckyliu said:

and another large cohort are "children of the magenta" who need a moving map and VNAV to feel comfortable.

Insulting people with trite, childhish stuff like this is totally the best way to draw their attention on niche areas of simulation. Totally. 

Edited August 30, 20241 yr by Abriael

If you're NOT flying the DC-6 and the F28 Fokker you're missing out, their system depth is certainly more then enough to create a great immersive retro experience, if anything I fly the F28 most of all, yes admittedly for 1 to 1.5 hour flights primarily but very satisfying to hand fly, endorphin rush on a perfect touchdown.
Quite enjoy the A300 as well which still has some of that retro vibe to it.

The only caveat with the DC-6 and F28  is that I have to pick the destination airports ensuring that they have an ILS approach as RNAV landings are not really an option, you can sorta go by charts and try to match your profile as such but if the weather is bad and you can't fly VFR it's extremely hard without ILS.   It's clear that RNAV is becoming more and more the norm nowadays especially on regional airports where these planes are best matched to.  I wish Navigraph had a historical Airac option which I 'assume' may have more ILS approaches in existence still.

 

 

10 hours ago, VeryBumpy said:

Where are the likes of a ....?

• de Havilland DH.106 Comet
• Lockheed L-1011 TriStar
• Tupolev Tu-114 (with proper English translation)
• Vickers VC10
• Douglas DC-8
• Boeing 707
• BAC 1-11

I think the Tristar, the DC-8 and the 747 Classic are likely to be made.

The others in your list will be like the Caravelle, the Mercure and the Convair 990. Great retro aircraft, but due to low awareness of them, unlikely to be made (unless Jörg pushes for their inclusion in future updates). I doubt any third party developer would see a profitable ROI on them as projects.

 

10 hours ago, Beardyman said:

I hope that Just Flight will make L1011 as portover of their P3D version

The P3D version was already a port from FSX and appeared that way like too. In MSFS, it would look atrocious and the code wouldn't be optimised. JF has become a quality developer – unlikely they would want to ruin that reputation.

Expect from them either a brand new L-1011 for MSFS or not at all.

"Study level" implies many thousands of man hours devs need to invest into making said aircraft. If the demand is not there, and these are niche products, marketing forces will prevail and hardly any will be developed (talking about steam gauges airliners).
GA is a different story.

Too. Much alcohol to comment ...and a waste of time

Edited August 31, 20241 yr by Ron Lefebvre

3 minutes ago, Ron Lefebvre said:

And yet the BAE 256 is one of the favorite aircraft around.

As much as I love the BAE 256, that's a very unsound statical statement. 

49 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

 I doubt any third party developer would see a profitable ROI on them as projects.

 

Since FS2020 is now on Xbox, hasn't it way out sold FSX already? If this is the case, I see no reason why any decently made plane that is marketed at a medium price point wouldn't sell in large enough numbers to turn a decent profit.