35 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

This doesn't make any sense.  If the promised upgrades to lighting, ground textures and trees/grass/crops are true,  you would be getting an improved sim, even if weather and physics are the same.

Don't care about anything else if physics and weather are not improved. 

2 minutes ago, Jeeeno said:

Don't care about anything else if physics and weather are not improved. 

As I said, makes no sense.  Why would you disregard ALL other improvements if what you care about is the same - you don't lose!

54 minutes ago, Jeeeno said:

Don't care about anything else if physics and weather are not improved.

@Jeeeno has a good point; a flight simulator should prioritize these two things, as they are two of the most important factors of simulating a flight. But clearly that does not create sales.

5 hours ago, Tom_L said:

There once was a transparent upvoting system, where everyone could see what the community is really interested in. Then they started to collect questions in their forums into an obscure process, and now we seem to have reached the point where they even may answer "questions" nobody has asked.

They literally answered a question I asked 2 Q&As ago and they put it up word for word, exactly as I wrote it.

4 hours ago, Jeeeno said:

If weather and physics stays the same, not interested. 

It is pretty obvious if you watch the two trailers and the keynote addresses at FSExpo that physics are definitely not the same.

3 hours ago, Jeeeno said:

Don't care about anything else if physics and weather are not improved. 

Good for you.. even if the absolute worst case happens (hint: it won't) and MSFS *only* improves the digital twin earth modelling and environmental lighting etc as shown, I'd still cough up the money to move up to the new sim. As would it appears most others 🤷‍♂️

And as has been said frequently already, the modelling of flight dynamics ultimately all comes down to the aircraft developer and how they make use of the various tech and tools in the sim toolbox and SDK. And for any aspects where an aircraft dev feels the sim's FDE (flight dynamics engine) is limiting, they can override or go external. Given the various examples of well developed aircraft already available for MSFS with stellar flight dynamics, I'm not in the least concerned about MSFS 2024 as it can only improve upon an already good platform. Put another way, even if the MSFS 2024 FDE's physics improves in appreciable ways, a poorly developed aircraft can still have cr*p flight dynamics.
 

Edited September 6, 20241 yr by lwt1971

2 hours ago, KERNEL32 said:

@Jeeeno has a good point; a flight simulator should prioritize these two things, as they are two of the most important factors of simulating a flight. But clearly that does not create sales.

Well yes obviously a flight simulator should not neglect simulating flight, and there is absolutely no evidence that MS/Asobo are *only* prioritizing factors that "create sales", whatever that means. When they're able to employ a huge team and also partner up with various 3rd parties, they can afford to walk and chew gum and do various other activities all at the same time. Despite the legacy mindset that some seem to have around here, them working on "X, Y, Z" does not mean they're not working on "A. B, C" when they have a team as large as they do.

Oh, and we also know this given all what they've actually said and shown re: what's coming in MSFS 2024:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6riRXgRsCU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPhScg_FINE
https://www.helisimmer.com/news/msfs-2024-interview-jorg-neumann-sebastian-wloch
https://www.helisimmer.com/interview/msfs-2024-helicopters-future-msfs-2020
https://msfsaddons.com/2024/06/24/interview-with-jorg-neumann-and-sebastian-wloch-on-microsoft-flight-simulator-2024-and-beyond/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9zh-7xoKqQ
 

Edited September 6, 20241 yr by lwt1971

6 hours ago, Tom_L said:

They should definitely drop the "Q" from the title of these events. There once was a transparent upvoting system, where everyone could see what the community is really interested in. Then they started to collect questions in their forums into an obscure process, and now we seem to have reached the point where they even may answer "questions" nobody has asked. Many will say "we hadn't had any communication with developers before, so this is much better". But this is very far from the dialogue of the early days, and "we here you" is a pretty empty phrase when the communication is limited in the way it is now.

 

7 hours ago, MarcG said:

I also notice there's no Question Form this time, so they'll cherry pick the questions that make them look good instead of answering the hard questions like;

I prefer the past when they had an open forum and people could upvote questions for the Twitch Q&A, and also discuss in the thread about the upvoted question.

But I can definitely seem them cherry picking questions for the MSFS 2024 Twitch Q&A live stream, because there may be certain features they don't want to reveal yet for MSFS 2024.  And to be fair to them, it's okay if they are not ready to reveal certain features for MSFS 2024, especially if those features are still being worked on.

Having said that, when MSFS 2024 is released, I do hope they go back to the open forum format where we can upvote questions on MSFS 2024, and discuss those questions in the thread for that question.

9 hours ago, scotchegg said:

NGL, bit disappointed we have to wait until the end of September...

Seriously.. hopefully they release at least one deep dive video earlier in September (low chance probably) or at the very least along with the live stream. I also wonder if the SDK is on track to be released this month, and earlier than later.
 

I wonder if they will be able to update 2024 without obliterating some peoples settings like 2020 does. Even that simple thing will be quite welcome. 

5 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

If by 'home' you mean non professional, and for entertainment purposes only then you're probably right. I don't know xplane at all to give an educated opinion on. 

MSFS is certainly the most likely to have superlatives associated with it by the largest number of home users ever involved in flight related entertainment software. That's a given! 

Yup, by home market, I mean the market for home users. So it's not the commercial market.

Regarding the commercial market though, Matt Nischan from Working Title said that MSFS could probably obtain FAA certification if they wanted to. But I think it's not a priority for the MSFS team at the moment.  I have always said that Microsoft will probably use the MSFS engine to enter the commercial market at some point, because there is money to be made there.  Whatever agreement Microsoft signed with Lockheed Martin when they sold the ESP engine to Lockheed Martin, I would be very surprised if there was a non-compete clause that lasts longer than 15 years that barred Microsoft from targeting the commercial market, and Lockheed Martin from targeting the home entertainment market.

12 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

MSFS 2020 is already the most advanced flight simulator out there for the home market, so far ahead of anything else available.

I thought AVSIM was deleting these types of compare X vs. the world messages?  In the MSFS forums they seem to go unaltered, very odd.

6 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

you would be getting an improved sim, even if weather and physics are the same.

Improvement depends and what one wants to enjoy, for some the graphics are just fine "as is", the weather/physics pretty bad, ok very bad ... hence the desire to see a focus on those elements for "improvement".  Before everyone gets all defensive about MSFS weather and physics, I don't care, this is an opinion, we have opinions, welcome to the human race.

10 hours ago, MarcG said:

I also notice there's no Question Form this time, so they'll cherry pick the questions that make them look good instead of answering the hard questions like.

Like it's industry standard? It's funny to me that someone is actually surprised or pretends to be. It's already a luxury that for SOME Q&A they actually used an upvote system. They have answered *plenty* of hard questions over the years. Many more than  99% of other developers.

But some just have to be snarky for the sake of being snarky. 🥱

10 hours ago, MarcG said:

I just hope there's lots of new details in there, I don't want to hear about Missions we already know about that, I don't want to hear about better details at ground level we already know about that etc etc. 

There are a lot of people excited about missions, and no, we don't know much about them. We don't really know how they'll work, what exactly they'll entail, what supporting systems they'll have, and so forth. Knowing they exist and the general aviation topics they'll cover doesn't mean knowing what they'll do.

9 hours ago, Tom_L said:

where everyone could see what the community is really interested in.

It's actually rather funny that you think "the community" is identified with "the forums" and even less so "the official forums." Most of "the community" fled that moderation hellhole ages ago.  

I'm ready to bet all my money that the majority of the actual community is a lot more interested in hearing about what they'll talk about and is excited for it, rather than the niche topics that super niche areas of the community like this or that forum are interested in. 

5 hours ago, KERNEL32 said:

has a good point; a flight simulator should prioritize these two things, as they are two of the most important factors of simulating a flight. But clearly that does not create sales.

Aside from the fact that MSFS has been improving physics and weather for 4 years, and they'll continue to improve, if that's what you think, you never stepped on an actual professional airliner simulator, which prioritizes procedures by a LOT over physics and weather. 

The most important factor in simulating anything varies depending on the simulator and on what the simulator is used for. There are a gazillion of simulators on the consumer market alone (unfortunately most people in the core flight simulation community are completely blind to what is outside of it), and they all have different focuses because their developers and users want to achieve different things. 

Incidentally, if we want to talk absolutes, immersion is one of the most important factors in any simulator. Environmental fidelity is one of the most important factor in any simulator that involves VFR (lots of people seem to think VFR doesn't exist or it's somehow of less importance, and that's hilarious). 

 

Edited September 6, 20241 yr by Abriael

4 hours ago, KERNEL32 said:

@Jeeeno has a good point; a flight simulator should prioritize these two things, as they are two of the most important factors of simulating a flight. But clearly that does not create sales.

All aviation industry is about sales. In theory simulators can be used for several things: certificate, currency, or  safety. We can clearly see from GA accident statistic in recent years that loss of control is still number one cause of all accidents! And none of existing hardcore desktop sims haven't change that dynamic . In contrast level D sims clearly do something amazing because there is huge difference between GA  and commercial aviation safety. You 14 time more likely to do in GA aircraft than in the car.  So here are big news -  desktop sims are  all about entertaining and big sales . Austin wouldn't  be able to buy Lanceair Evolution if XP wasn't selling LOL 

Can desktop sim be used for real pilot? Ask a certified pilot! Literally anything can be used even of office chair if you know how to use it for training. Aeronautical decision making is still a big thing. Asked  hardcore simmers when last time their deviated due to weather and "go around" when approach was not stable LOL Yep we all play games - admit it and be happy 🙂

 

5 hours ago, KERNEL32 said:

@Jeeeno has a good point; a flight simulator should prioritize these two things, as they are two of the most important factors of simulating a flight. But clearly that does not create sales.

Yes, I would also agree those are the most important in a flightsim.  However, his point was slightly different in that he wouldn't purchase MSFS2024 if those weren't improved. Therefore he wouldn't lose out by buying FS2024, but he would gain other improvements.  

1 hour ago, CO2Neutral said:

I thought AVSIM was deleting these types of compare X vs. the world messages?  In the MSFS forums they seem to go unaltered, very odd.

I quoted that statement myself as carefully as I could to avoid being pounced upon!