MSFS 2024 Navigraph launches Jeppesen Navigation Data for MSFS 2024

[tttocs]

1 hour ago, mistolip said:

Quote: "You might also evaluate whether you need different navdata in the sim at all; the level of completeness is a completely different level than it was with the previous data partner, and is definitely more than competitive with third party offerings (even exceeding in some areas)."

Keep in mind that the "even exceeding" part is mostly subjective.  Some people prefer LIDO charts, some (like me) Jepp.

As noted by others, the LIDO charts don't cover the ever-increasing number of smaller airports which feature IAPs (thanks to GPS).  In the US, this matters less as the sim augments with FAA charts for those airports.  In other parts of the world it matters if you fly to non-aircarrier airports.

Keep in mind also that some third party aircraft as well as some third party GPS devices only support Navigraph.

Another quick edit:  Because LIDO targets the air carrier market, LIDO approach plates ONLY publish info for categories C and D, leaving off A and B.  Cat A is Vref of 91 KTS or less, while Cat B is Vref of 91-121 KTS.

Scott

Edited December 24, 2024 by tttocs

[JRBarrett]

I will always maintain my Navigraph subscription because they are the only provider of custom FMS data for my 3rd party add on aircraft. (PMDG, Leonardo etc.) They also (as of now) are the only provider of EFB charts for 3rd party add-ons. I have been using the LIDO charts in supported MSFS 2024 aircraft, and do like them, but they don’t cover smaller airports as others have mentioned.

[BostonJeremy77]

Yeah, I am keeping Navigraph. They provide data for FMS for the aircraft, I like Jepp charts better, and I can also use it in XP12. 

[B777ER]

Navigraph all the way. Offers all the built in navigation data for the top tier aircraft developers along with a slew of features the built in one will never have like Vatsim integration, numerous weather features, etc… If people want to throw shade at Navigraph it’s likely they can’t afford it and thus want to hate on it I suppose. 

[salasnet]

6 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

So it's really only non-USA general aviation flying that you may be missing data or charts for if you stick with default LIDO.

Thank you to everybody that touched upon my questions. I feel like I have a better understanding of it. I get the charts part, that is easy to understand in regards to coverage, look, preference, etc.. It was the "navigation data" part of replacing the built in navigation data of MSFS 2024 that had me confused.

Honestly, given that LIDO and JEPPESEN seem to provide the same basic quality of navigation data, I do not see any reason to replace the nav data. I would fathom that given the navigation data is on par for both, that third party developers whose addons only work with Navigraph data might rethink that stance? (Is this actually the case? Are there addons who rely on the Navigraph data exclusively?)

I would think that having a Navigraph requirement for your addon might be an impediment to greater sales.

[ryanbatc]

31 minutes ago, salasnet said:

Thank you to everybody that touched upon my questions. I feel like I have a better understanding of it. I get the charts part, that is easy to understand in regards to coverage, look, preference, etc.. It was the "navigation data" part of replacing the built in navigation data of MSFS 2024 that had me confused.

Honestly, given that LIDO and JEPPESEN seem to provide the same basic quality of navigation data, I do not see any reason to replace the nav data. I would fathom that given the navigation data is on par for both, that third party developers whose addons only work with Navigraph data might rethink that stance? (Is this actually the case? Are there addons who rely on the Navigraph data exclusively?)

I would think that having a Navigraph requirement for your addon might be an impediment to greater sales.

Navigraph had the monopoly on the navdata this is true.  I presume the main reason why Microsoft produced this new data was so every user would have the opportunity to use it, without paying a subscription.  While the sub for Navigraph is quite inexpensive for what you get, some people aren't able to afford it.

The whole thing is bitter sweet for me.

I was actually a Navigraph Naysayer for many years.  "It's not worth it, I mostly fly USA so I don't need it (free charts in USA) etc"  But when I subscribed a few years ago, I found out what I was missing - their Charts app is amazing in itself, along with SimBrief etc.  So it was a shell shock for the NG team when Asobo announced a whole new free EFB/planner with charts and navdata.  It definitely will hurt their business.  It's very difficult to compete with free.  It's a bit sad to see and that's kinda why I jumped on the person who claimed LIDO data was superior (it's not).  It has far less coverage than NG (Jepp).

On the flip side, what WorkingTitle have created for us in 2024 is absolutely stunning.  And the new data contract through LIDO opens up new doors for new users, it piques the curiosity of new users and will naturally encourage more people to become "a serious simmer" (TM lol).

I semi agree with you that addons which solely require NG should consider supporting LIDO, but changing a database could be tons of code (time effort money etc) and I don't know how feasible that is.  Heck, just trying myself to paint the 2024 PC-12 NGX has been a steep learning curve.  SO much has changed in 2024 for developers.  No one should work for free (unless they want to), so I would expect devs to charge for upgrades for supporting LIDO databases.

Edited December 25, 2024 by ryanbatc

[tttocs]

36 minutes ago, salasnet said:

Honestly, given that LIDO and JEPPESEN seem to provide the same basic quality of navigation data, I do not see any reason to replace the nav data. I would fathom that given the navigation data is on par for both, that third party developers whose addons only work with Navigraph data might rethink that stance? (Is this actually the case? Are there addons who rely on the Navigraph data exclusively?)

Leave aside the word "quality", as that can be highly subjective.  The Jepp product that Navigraph offers simply provides greater support for GA by supporting information for Cat A and B as well as full support for all airports worldwide, not just those used by commercial air carriers.  If that matters to you, it matter a lot.  If it doesn't, it doesn't.  So, not really a quality issue, but a support one.

And yes, there are numerous products that can only be updated with Navigraph.  For GA folks, the TDS Garmin GTN products are one example.  In the tube world, there are third party planes who's FMS data can only be updated with Navigraph.

Scott

 

Edited December 25, 2024 by tttocs

[Sonosusto]

This is an excellent forum discussion by the way. Nobody trolled with "Jeppson and PMDG is terrible" yet.. so its good. Lots of good, solid information here.

I have used Navigraph (and Simbrief before they were bought by Navigraph), some freeware apps etc for years. Its been nearly 15 plus years or more. LittleNavMap and getting it updated with the newest AIRAC with Navigraph was something I actually looked forward to. Then Pilot2ATC which took the place of ATC, voices, chatter and a flight plan of any other program I own. Updating the FMS for my Dden Challenger and Aerobask G1000 planes were the other favorites!

21 minutes ago, tttocs said:

Leave aside the word "quality", as that can be highly subjective.  The Jepp product that Navigraph offers simply provides greater support for GA by supporting information for Cat A and B as well as full support for all airports worldwide, not just those used by commercial air carriers.  If that matters to you, it matter a lot.  If it doesn't, it doesn't.  So, not really a quality issue, but a support one.

And yes, there are numerous products that can only be updated with Navigraph.  For GA folks, the TDS Garmin GTN products are one example.  In the tube world, there are third party planes who's FMS data can only be updated with Navigraph.

Scott

 

Any why bother responding to anything when you, and a bunch of others, said exactly what I wanted to say? 😁 (To be be fair I also said the same thing earlier but nobody reads the earlier posts)

If it weren't for Navigraph, Flight sim would be very different for me and the rest of us. Not just MSFS. But other simulators as well. Zibo and their tablet for example. So many memories trying to land in terrible IFR CATIII while frantically glancing at the ILS freq on the tablet. Oh, and using 124thATC. "Cleared to land" and then "Oh ****!" Hahaha. Ah, those were the days.

[Cognita]

Great discussion!

I cancelled my Navigraph subscription back in October as I was getting ready for 2024. So far I have really enjoyed the in-sim charts. I am planning my flights on my browser and manually entering them to the G1000 or 750 depending on the aircraft. I am not so interested in tube liners anymore so at least for now the in-sim charts is fine for me. If I start to encounter many instances where charts are not available then maybe I will change and go back to Navigraph. What I will say is that Microsoft has really stepped up their offering and if you are new you can go a long way to learning without third party applications.

[ConairMSFS]

9 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

Navigraph had the monopoly on the navdata this is true.  I presume the main reason why Microsoft produced this new data was so every user would have the opportunity to use it, without paying a subscription.  While the sub for Navigraph is quite inexpensive for what you get, some people aren't able to afford it.

..............

On the flip side, what WorkingTitle have created for us in 2024 is absolutely stunning.  And the new data contract through LIDO opens up new doors for new users, it piques the curiosity of new users and will naturally encourage more people to become "a serious simmer" (TM lol).

I mostly agree with you, at the beginning I never wanted to subscribe to navigraph, searching for free charts and so on, then tried it and totally changed my experience.

When you pay money for PMDG, FENIX and other addons, flight yokes, and so on, it's not those 10 dollars a month making the hobby too expensive.

I see it as if you are a "serious simmer" and want the most complete and realistic experience, go for navigraph, while asobo meanwhile started to open the doors to those "less advanced" (not the right term, I know) users who wanted something more, without having to pay for the top notch product. Then who knows, I still think it's early, maybe in next monthes we will see beter integration of asobo provided charts too. Flight planner is already quite nice.

 

Edited December 25, 2024 by ConairMSFS

[rome0kil0]

i have had navigraph & simbrief since i started to fly sims. it is down to what people are happy with at the end of the day, some people like airbus, some prefer boeing. some folks dont like to pay for anything extra, i understand that. thats called a personal choice. navigraph has saved me countless hours trawling the web for charts and info, in return i will continue my subscription. i dont mind paying a small monthly fee. i dont see the need to jump ship because microsoft\asobo finally came to the party in a new suit. ive tried the LIDO charts and online app thing, they seem ok, but they are just not for me. i have navigraph charts and simbrief on ipads, i like to use them in dark mode, my eyes appreciate it more.

[CAP1234]

Interesting read so far - Lets start with discussing nav data first, I don't think there is a difference between either lido or Jeppesen as they both provide identical data which also complies with various regulators around the world IRL. The only downside of using Lido is some third party addons aircraft only support Jeppesen/Navigraph data so if not using navigraph then you are left with old nav data which over time can cause anomalies (especially true if you fly on online networks like Vatsim/IVAO - policies have been changed, you must now fly with a latest nav data). So will third party addon developers switch to Lido - we don't know yet, one of the developers have confirmed that they have no intention of swapping navigraph to lido since some data is not complete. 

For charts however this is where it gets interesting - Lido's primary customers are airlines who operate medium/large transport category jets hence it only supplies charts for airports which are only approved for M/L jets. This leaves many airports around the globe which have various instrument approach/departure procedures which is used by smaller jets/turbo props. Another thing on Lido charts is most instrument approaches are charted for jets (Cat C and D only) so if you are flying anything like single engine prop or turbo prop (cat A & B) then there is no established procedure for you to follow. Jeppesen in this case caters for all category (A to D) as well as covering those smaller regional airfields around the globe. 

Edited December 25, 2024 by CAP1234

[rlashier]

I have not tried the LIDO charts yet, but having used Navigraph for several years, i find the tight Simbrief/Navigraph integration to be a great solution for my flight planning needs. And the more recent integration with the PMDG Boeing and Fenix EFBs make the Navigraph subscription indispensable. I enjoy the flight planning aspect of the hobby, and one feature of Navigraph I especially like is the ability to superimpose the arrival chart and the approach chart over the IFR chart so that one can then select the most appropriate transition and via for the flight plan. Navigraph does this well, with the ability to do so with the in sim app or on my iPad. Hard to give all that functionality up to my thinking. 
Rich

[Cpt_Piett]

On 12/24/2024 at 2:46 PM, Barnes said:

Navigraph is aware of the bug and will be issuing an update for Hub soon. 

This should now be fixed.