3 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

PS I see you avoided answering my valid points. 

Ahh, if you only made 'valid' points worth responding to.  You're here to bash MS/A just like the OP, and your 'comparison' argument is 100% driven by exactly what I said:  to try to pull others over into your new camp, and that is exactly what's happening and why you are here in the MSFS forum spewing anti MS/A and MSFS commentary.  

4 hours ago, Aglos77 said:

Is it really a flight simulator for Asobo or do they have another plan in mind?

I'm fairly confident that the long term strategy for the MSFS digital twin includes other transportation modes.

We're already seeing it with an influx of 3rd party cars & boats, as well as complementary scenery upgrades.

And I would bet my bottom dollar that MS is (or already has) figuring out commercial/gov/mil applications for the simulation, as well.

4 hours ago, Aglos77 said:

They don't want us to call anyone liars but 99% of people here already know that you don't need to spend money on the other simulator to have a decent scenario, it's one of the lies that is constantly repeated.

I personally have had to spend a lot more money on scenery for MFS than for the other sim because the default airports are so bad in general and there aren't always free versions. They talked a long time ago about doing something similar to the other simulator with the community to get the community to help with the default airports but I guess it was just another spur of the moment thing.

I overall agree. But I think it's less "Lies" and more Tribalism, or perhaps under-informed.

2 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

His 13 year old kid when I got there then asked me how to fly the darkstar from Singapore to JFK to show his mates at school.

Inspiration comes in many forms.

And there are decent core mechanics at work in the DarkStar.

For e.g., BlackBird/MilViz can't yet get their SR-71 to behave properly above Mach 2.4...

3 hours ago, St Mawgan said:

Well you join us on Page 19 and it's gripping stuff folks, which grown adult is going to have the last word??

Take your pick between Ray, Charlie or Bob.

can’t be long now…

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

....And oh.. as with last year, and the year before, the "older niche simmers" market quite likes the MSFS platform looks like, like *considerably* so: https://navigraph.com/blog/survey-2024 ... so much so that it's increased to 77% choosing the MSFS platform as their primary sim, first place 52% to 2020, second place 25% to 2024 (not bad for such a badly launched sim in its initial months before SU1), and third place 12% for another sim platform.....

This isn't the world of Harry Potter, Len. The "sim that must not be named" in third place is X-Plane 12.

Edited May 2, 20251 yr by Christopher Low

2 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

This isn't the world of Harry Potter, Len. The "sim that must not be named" in third place is X-Plane 12.

touché 🙂 
 

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Has any flight sim ever really done "AI" ATC well...?

I feel like this is an evergreen topic, regardless of sim or sim version....?

Well 12.2 seems to have mastered it to a pretty good level now with Jim Kiers help… certainly useable. So I’m not sure why it’s such a difficult thing for Asobo to do, it’s not like they haven’t had 5 years now. 

Edited May 2, 20251 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

1 hour ago, Noel said:

to try to pull others over into your new camp, and that is exactly what's happening and why you are here in the MSFS forum spewing anti MS/A and MSFS commentary

What on earth are you talking about? You’re deluded. What camp? I have multiple sim installs, and I couldn’t care less what you or others use. 🤷🏻‍♂️

You simply can not handle debate like an adult. That’s the top and bottom of it. So you get all flustered which turns in to aggression. You make it sound like some anti government protest! It’s just a game. I voice my displeasure with certain elements of it. And why competitors do it better. I can also reverse that and say why msfs is better than XP at certain things, which of course it is. I certainly wouldn’t get all upset over it. 

Edited May 2, 20251 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

Guys, this is supposed to be a fun pastime - life is great in sim-world when you think about it. Graphics are fantastic, addons are high-fidelity ... it's never been better and although its sometimes frustrating it's not like the simulators are "dead" they're in active development so will get better and better regardless of which "side" you choose. There's nothing really worth falling out over.

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Well 12.2 seems to have mastered it to a pretty good level now with Jim Kiers help… certainly useable. So I’m not sure why it’s such a difficult thing for Asobo to do, it’s not like they haven’t had 5 years now. 

Just for comparisons sake, not to knock it, but XP's been around 25 years...

And it's fair to say that the MS sims have been around, in one form or another, for about the same time.

I guess what I'm intimating is that ATC must be difficult to implement, at least relative to the other priorities of sim devs.

48 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Just for comparisons sake, not to knock it, but XP's been around 25 years...

And it's fair to say that the MS sims have been around, in one form or another, for about the same time.

I guess what I'm intimating is that ATC must be difficult to implement, at least relative to the other priorities of sim devs.

True but the ATC team at laminar is a one man band. Asobo have riches beyond comparison, and 25 years development to LR is probably the equivalent of 5 years to Asobo. 
Plus, Asobo inherited the ATC system from FSX, so, it’s not like they were starting from scratch. They said a couple of years ago that WT would be working on it. What happened to that? Nothing it appears. Not that I can see anyways. Is it happening behind the scenes? I’m doubtful. I’d be very surprised and happy if it was, but I’d wager it isn’t. ATC is a fundamental part of flying, and the amount of people here posting about the ATC addons shows they take it quite serious. So I can’t understand why Asobo don’t treat it the same way. Why can’t they hire one of the ATC addon guys in the same way they hired WT? More answers than questions, and the Q&A sessions lead to even more unanswered questions. 

Not only the Atc; pretty game maybe but the water masking is an absolute mess; maybe some have other priorities; but this spoil the game a lot.

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

True but the ATC team at laminar is a one man band. Asobo have riches beyond comparison, and 25 years development to LR is probably the equivalent of 5 years to Asobo. 
Plus, Asobo inherited the ATC system from FSX, so, it’s not like they were starting from scratch. They said a couple of years ago that WT would be working on it. What happened to that? Nothing it appears. Not that I can see anyways. Is it happening behind the scenes? I’m doubtful. I’d be very surprised and happy if it was, but I’d wager it isn’t. ATC is a fundamental part of flying, and the amount of people here posting about the ATC addons shows they take it quite serious. So I can’t understand why Asobo don’t treat it the same way. Why can’t they hire one of the ATC addon guys in the same way they hired WT? More answers than questions, and the Q&A sessions lead to even more unanswered questions. 

Yes, these are very fair points 🤙

I guess that since I mainly fly in DCS World, where the ATC is well below all the civ sims, I kinda think that what's in XP & MSFS isn't all that bad, relatively speaking. 😆

2 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

True but the ATC team at laminar is a one man band. Asobo have riches beyond comparison, and 25 years development to LR is probably the equivalent of 5 years to Asobo. 
Plus, Asobo inherited the ATC system from FSX, so, it’s not like they were starting from scratch. They said a couple of years ago that WT would be working on it. What happened to that? Nothing it appears. Not that I can see anyways. Is it happening behind the scenes? I’m doubtful. I’d be very surprised and happy if it was, but I’d wager it isn’t. ATC is a fundamental part of flying, and the amount of people here posting about the ATC addons shows they take it quite serious. So I can’t understand why Asobo don’t treat it the same way. Why can’t they hire one of the ATC addon guys in the same way they hired WT? More answers than questions, and the Q&A sessions lead to even more unanswered questions. 

With AI being all the rage, you would think ATC would be great and interesting sandbox to show the capabilities of modern AI for the likes of MS/Asobo. Besides coming up with the correct instructions and verbiage, AI can deliver voice in all kinds of variances and dialects.