38 minutes ago, Kevin_28 said:

One is a lot more beholden to the restrictions put forth by the simulator than the other and, especially during a time when the sim was trying to solidify its SDK, it's fair to assume one had more potential blocks than the other.

This doesn’t hold a lot of water when neither of these aircraft use the sim’s systems. They both have their own custom implementations that read or write simvars. The only real issue is having to deal with the shared VRAM that an Xbox has to contend with but you can just deploy a lesser graphical variant to Xbox or use aggressive LODs (in FS24)

These conversations get so bizarre. 

Guys, PMDG makes good products.  Considering it is a sub-$100 digital rendition of an extremely complex aircraft, they make INCREDIBLE products.  It is mind blowing that this is even possible.  The same can be said for other top tier devs like Fenix, iFly, A2A etc.

Are these products perfect?  Of course they aren't, just like Fenix, iFly, and A2A's products aren't (ok, but A2A is close 😉.). Because... See point one, about sub-$100 entertainment software. 

Arguing about reading the placards in the wheel well or on the gear?  What?  You understand that unless you've gotten a tail on literally its first couple legs, you're never even going to see those placards without a lot of rag work anyway?  The wheel wells are not clean places.

This is a video game.  That seems extremely obvious, but also seems like some folks need to hear it again.  You're arguing about make believe pixels.  The Internet is a weird place.  Makes for good time wasting, I guess.  But the fact that anyone can argue - no matter how ridiculously - that PMDG's products are lousy, really is the clearest commentary imaginable about how entitled and unreasonable some of the desktop sim community has gotten.  It's as if you have no understanding at all of how good you actually have it.

Can we debate the nit-picky details of which dev's digital rendition of an aircraft is "better", as in more accurate?  Sure.  But there has to be some perspective; ALL of the top tier devs are making absolutely astonishing products these days.  That very much includes PMDG.

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

The same can be said for the converse case, with people that apparently are emotionally engaged with a corporation in the negative sense, and seem easily triggered by everything the corporation (or head of the said corporation) says/does, and seem eager to dump on them at any chance they get, etc 🤷‍♂️
 

Absolutely agree, this is also terrible and should not be done. It's the same thing.. there's no difference. 

However, if this is intended to be a dig at me, you are incorrect. I hold no loyalty to any corporation good or bad. If you do good work and I see value in your product, I buy it (PMDG, Fenix, Blacksquare, A2A and more). If your work is poor (CaptainSim), or I simply see no value in it for me (FSlabs), I don't buy it. 

If you read my comments, you will see that I like PMDGs products and have bought them for many years, but that doesn't mean I do not see that they are no longer as good as they used to be. That is my reasoned opinion and I am happy to disagree and acknowledge that others may have a different opinion (that's what opinions are), but I don't like to engage with people that want to fight over stupid stuff and want to make every thread into a fight. 

That's my viewpoint, if you get enjoyment from long angry/passionate discussions that's cool too 🙂.. for me this is just a hobby, not something that is part of my identity/profession/life.

 

Edited May 7, 20251 yr by JonathanC

29 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

But it seems like most other developers get a pass with whatever mistakes they make, whereas people seem to have a blood feud with PMDG for some reason.

I’m going to have to call this out as being a bit untrue.
 

Whenever the name leonardo gets mentioned everyone thinks of that very expensive addon that by all intentions does not look it belongs in MSFS much less sound like it.

Fenix can’t get away from the complaints of flaring behaviour and heavy performance (though they have done a lot to help mitigate this)

JustFlight, honestly I haven’t seen anything. For me I have no complaints about their products but they’re also not nearly as mainstream. 

FSS… well we already know about FSS.

ini is in quite a bit of hot water as we know.

1 minute ago, JonathanC said:

Absolutely agree, this is also terrible and should not be done. It's the same thing.. there's no difference. 

However, if this is intended to be a dig at me, you are incorrect. I hold no loyalty to any corporation good or bad. If you do good work and I see value in your product, I buy it (PMDG, Fenix, Blacksquare, A2A and more). If your work is poor (CaptainSim), or I simply see no value in it for me (FSlabs), I don't buy it. 

Not at all meant as a dig at you, just wanted to point out the other side 🙂 
 

PMDG is making a very realistic representations of real world aircraft which takes hundreds of thousends to make.

Using Prosim 738 here : € 1500 excl tax + yearly subscroption of € 100 excl tax..

PMDG software is “cheap” compared to that….

27 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Not at all meant as a dig at you, just wanted to point out the other side 🙂 
 

Fair play.. always nicer to have pleasant conversation :) 

3 hours ago, Lucky38i said:

I’m going to have to call this out as being a bit untrue.
 

Whenever the name leonardo gets mentioned everyone thinks of that very expensive addon that by all intentions does not look it belongs in MSFS much less sound like it.

Fenix can’t get away from the complaints of flaring behaviour and heavy performance (though they have done a lot to help mitigate this)

JustFlight, honestly I haven’t seen anything. For me I have no complaints about their products but they’re also not nearly as mainstream. 

FSS… well we already know about FSS.

ini is in quite a bit of hot water as we know.

Agree. I was exaggerating to make a point.

It seems like all devs come under fire sooner or later. And IMHO, most of it is entirely unwarranted.

But what amazes me is the high level of sustained antipathy directed at PMDG, who make high quality add-ons, no two ways about it.

52 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

But what amazes me is the high level of sustained antipathy directed at PMDG, who make high quality add-ons, no two ways about it.

I seriously doubt PMDG needs your sympathy. They make good money (and a solid product) off of MSFS just like in the past with P3D/FSX. They don't care but only money, just like any developer or business do. They just keep feeding the same thing over and over again and their customer service is not one of the best of them whether we disagree or agree just check their forum out.

Edited May 8, 20251 yr by JBDB-MD80

4 hours ago, GSalden said:

PMDG is making a very realistic representations of real world aircraft which takes hundreds of thousends to make.

Using Prosim 738 here : € 1500 excl tax + yearly subscroption of € 100 excl tax..

PMDG software is “cheap” compared to that….

But you're not only getting an airliner, you're also getting a hardware/software interface, very unfair example. 

4 hours ago, GSalden said:

PMDG is making a very realistic representations of real world aircraft which takes hundreds of thousends to make.

Using Prosim 738 here : € 1500 excl tax + yearly subscroption of € 100 excl tax..

PMDG software is “cheap” compared to that….

Well good for you, no need to tell us what you spent on Prosim (and subscription), irrelevant, keep it to yourself!

3 hours ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

I seriously doubt PMDG needs your sympathy. They make good money (and a solid product) off of MSFS just like in the past with P3D/FSX. They don't care but only money, just like any developer or business do. They just keep feeding the same thing over and over again and their customer service is not one of the best of them whether we disagree or agree just check their forum out.

Good Lord, it's not sympathy for them, it's the uninformed opinions about them that bug me.

As far as their customer service, I've never needed it (from them or any other flight sim dev).

Like I said, I don't need them to be my buddies, so I really don't care about their attitudes as long as they give me what I pay for.

They and the vast majority of other devs I've bought from have done just that.

 

4 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

But you're not only getting an airliner, you're also getting a hardware/software interface, very unfair example. 

Don’t think so. It was to show that PMDG prices are not extremely high.

Years of development and investments to bring the highest level of realism is what PMDG does. Then people can’t expect that they would charge  $ 40-50 for it.

Prices are not bad.

All you guys complaining like you own a buisness? Guess you all work for free eh?

Sorry but ..Go cry elsewhere.

Mike 

14 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

Lets be realistic the only reason the 736 is cheap is because hardly anyone who absolutely must fly the correct type on the correct route at exactly the same time as the real world aircraft with identical engines/panel options/pen holders/coffee cups will buy and isn't that popular.....

I corrected that for you. Maybe that is why it is listed as a best seller on the MS Marketplace?

Edited May 8, 20251 yr by Christopher Low