PMDG had their own Forum on Avsim with the devs giving feedback and answers to owners of their products. but the golden rule you had have your real name in the sig like mine. This way they could tell if you owned their product. Due derogatory post from people that did not own the product. They later left Avsim and started their own website.

 

1 hour ago, Jude Bradley said:

In case you get mad, the Flightfactor B777-200ER  for X-Plane is even more expensive, and yes, I bought that when it was released too. 

https://store.x-plane.org/FlightFactor-777-200ER-v2-Ultimate_p_1883.html

No one should be upset at your post as you choose to use another simulator but here the OP of this thread implied He/She would pay $177. 00 US for a PMDG 777 product in MSFS is a bit of a reach for majority of the users here and certainly not  superior to other products on the market and certainly not superior to the 777ER you bought in another sim as many in the flightsim community suggest. They are pretty average for a High Fidelity addon today no matter what the OP thinks or their praises to their favorite developer does.

9 minutes ago, jon b said:

But which is better ?

That depends on who you ask that does not come down to Bias that the user thinks it is. From my opinion one seems to be more feature complete than the other and that one is not available in this MSFS sim that I choose to uses but its not up to me to make that call.

1 hour ago, Jude Bradley said:

In case you get mad, the Flightfactor B777-200ER  for X-Plane is even more expensive, and yes, I bought that when it was released too. 

https://store.x-plane.org/FlightFactor-777-200ER-v2-Ultimate_p_1883.html

Any differences between them, like added features, systems. sub-systems? 

22 minutes ago, jon b said:

But which is better ?

I think you would be one of the very few actually qualified to answer 😁👍

On one hand, PMDG Randazzo is an experienced IRL ATPL (I think Captain, as well).

OTOH, Ramesezz(?), who heads up Flight Factor, holds an IRL 777 Type Rating, but AFAIK wasn't a Line Pilot. So he's also got some cred.

Normally, I'd say we could look at what FlightDeck2Sim says, as he's an active 737 Captain, but he is very careful about saying "THIS one is better".

E.G., IIRC, he said of the Zibo 738 for XP and the PMDG 737 that both are extremely good, with a very slight edge in landing physics going to the Zibo.

I think a LOT of this drama all comes down to tribal simulator & developer preference, TBH. 🤙

7 hours ago, JETPETER2 said:

PMDG 777 will last years for $77 the gift that keeps on giving. I would be fine if it was $177.  Good thing they are in the masses now with X-box otherwise it would be $177.

I greatly appreciate the new economics of MSFS.

Back in P3D, I paid ~$220 for the 748-8! Of course, a 747-400 & freighters were included, but still, I couldn't get the 747-8 without paying for the 744...!

Fenix led the way in MSFS with their ~$70 A320 (vs the ~$150 FS Labs), PMDG 738 is $75 (vs $99 in P3D), and you can get the 736 for $35!

Also, the 777F is ~$50, vs ~$120 in P3D.

IniBuilds also has pricing for their A300 in the $60-ish, and $85-ish for their A350(?).

I think the only "problem" these days is having too many choices and expecting too much for "free".

It's a Golden Age and we should all be at least happy with all the changes in our favor!

 

Edited May 6, 20251 yr by UrgentSiesta
Clarification

I only ask about the FF 777 as I’m interested in their 787. 
I’ve stopped using XP ( mainly because I’ve not used it for so long when I tried I found I’d forgotten how to use VR with it) however if someone says the FF777 is about as good as the PMDG version then that gives me hope for the upcoming 787.

6 hours ago, JonathanC said:

They have a monopoly and exploit it. That is sensible from a business perspective, but the market is ripe for a disruptor to come in. If someone releases a 7x7 that is say 80% of PMDG quality for say 60% of the price.. lots of people will jump over. I just see PMDG pretty much stagnating and doing the same planes over and over.. this worked well for them, but if Fenix or a similar quality dev goes after them with a Boeing lineup.. things will get fun for the consumer. 

It's not a monopoly in the slightest.

Back in P3D there was QualityWings 787,

iFly 737, MAX and 744

CaptainSim made some decent Boeing's,

MilViz had the 732,

Etc, etc.

In v2020, and soon in v2024, we'll have iFly MAX,

BlueBird 757 is "soon" with 767 trailing, and don't forget that the base sim includes the 787 and 747-8, which are pretty decent with the AAU updates, and freeware upgrades.

People say that PMDG is stagnating, but in fairness, we have to admit that the aircraft they model haven't changed IRL, either...

E.g., I haven't seen anyone level the same criticism at Leonardo's MD-80, or Just Flight's 146, right...?

And people fall all over themselves to criticize the Asobo MAX, but that's entirely relative to Tier 1 payware. For a Default in house aircraft from scratch, it's more than decent.

My main point isn't to defend PMDG, per se, but rather that is we look at things objectively, they're not nearly as bad as is claimed.

15 minutes ago, jon b said:

I only ask about the FF 777 as I’m interested in their 787. 
I’ve stopped using XP ( mainly because I’ve not used it for so long when I tried I found I’d forgotten how to use VR with it) however if someone says the FF777 is about as good as the PMDG version then that gives me hope for the upcoming 787.

I think the 787 is still quite a ways out, sadly. They shared a few "in the gray" screen shots a few years ago, but haven't seen anything since...

I purchased the 777 so i could have it in 2024 but I no longer value PMDG. They are greedy. In the old days you paid a higher price for the base model and then the additional model were like $30. Now you pay full price for every variant. Better developers out there now days. Fenix is better and so is Ifly

20 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

I purchased the 777 so i could have it in 2024 but I no longer value PMDG. They are greedy. In the old days you paid a higher price for the base model and then the additional model were like $30. Now you pay full price for every variant. Better developers out there now days. Fenix is better and so is Ifly

I mean sure but multiple people have done the math and you still come out ahead with this model vs the P3D one.... I think its more mental, paying 70 more $ for something you already spent $70 on feels wrong, meanwhile spending $30 on something you already spent $130 on feels better even if the math is worse.

24 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

In the old days you paid a higher price for the base model

But back then people were complaining about having to buy a base model they wouldn't use and have to pay extra to get the model they wanted.

Now the consumer has choice but we're still complaining.

26 minutes ago, DavidP said:

But back then people were complaining about having to buy a base model they wouldn't use and have to pay extra to get the model they wanted.

Now the consumer has choice but we're still complaining.

It's a good point - I always fly the 700 so had to pay extra under their previous price plan. The only way you lose under the new one is if you feel the need to buy multiple models. 

Even then with the 700 & 800 you're getting PAX, Freight & BBJ for one price. Not worked out quite so well with the 777 though as I only have the freighter.

In terms of value from payware the only thing that beats the 737 for me (currently at 45p per flight) is the HondaJet.

 

G

1 hour ago, YukonPete said:

I purchased the 777 so i could have it in 2024 but I no longer value PMDG. They are greedy. In the old days you paid a higher price for the base model and then the additional model were like $30. Now you pay full price for every variant. 

I disagree. In the 'old days' the market for these products was much, much smaller.

To obtain P3D you had to clear three hurdles;

a) you had to have heard of the freakin' thing.

b) you had to pay an absurd amount of money to obtain a copy of a very bare bones simulator.

c) you had to make a false declaration about being a schoolboy to use it.

This meant users and therefore potential buyers were few and far between...but they were dedicated. They'd want every version they could get their hands on. PMDG priced accordingly. As you point out, the initial base product was expensive. This reflects the economies of scale all developers for P3D operated under but allowed PMDG to recover their costs and sell subsequent expansions at a much lower price to these dedicated few.

These days MSFS has turned that market on it's head. There are now millions of potential customers but, like me, they're less dedicated. The vast majority will buy just a single model. 

I have the 737-700. I'm very pleased with it. It looks great, it was and still is very engrossing to fly and master the systems and performs brilliantly in the sim - better than several GA planes I have - and for it's overall quality didn't really cost very much at all.

Will I buy an additional 737 from PMDG? Will I £#@&!

No, I have one 737. I'm simply not interested in having another slightly longer or slightly shorter 737.

...but I probably will get round to buying a different model of aeroplane from PMDG in the future.

PMDG realised early on in MSFS that this was the way the market would go and have priced accordingly. Good for them, good for me...and tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of others too.

The success of this strategy also enabled them to punt out the 600 at an absolute bargain price to entice that big slice of the market (hello Xbox!) that would never consider spending $70 on a single plane. I wonder how many of these purchasers went on to buy a 777 too?

PMDG? Like them or loathe them. You can't ignore them.....

 

Edited May 7, 20251 yr by DD_Arthur

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

It's not a monopoly in the slightest.

I mean, I can't get a decent 737 or 777 right now from any other developer. Perhaps in the past they had competition, but at the current moment they are the only game in town for a decent 737/777. AFAIK, anyway.. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong! Is there a decent 737 or 777 from any other developer for 2024? or even 2020?

With the obvious exception of the Ifly Max, which is a truly excellent plane. I wish they do the whole family!