16 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

Because you still don’t understand the point I was making and has nothing to do with XP or MSFS or any other discussion that may have happened before. You were simply wrong, you even contradicted yourself without noticing and could have quickly aknowledge having not used the right word if you wouldn’t immediately jump into defense mode for whatever reason.

uh huh, sure thing Franz 🙄
 

I take that back, MSFS 2024 is no more, got a refund approved (kinda surprised they approved).  

Tried to install MSFS 2024 “Aviator” on my new PC build and was never able to do a single flight, repeated CTD before I even got into a flight, couldn’t even get to the options page.  Virgin install with ZERO add-ons or modifications (the MS Store version for PC)

Not sure what happened, uninstalled MSFS 2024 from my other PC, installed on new PC and it CTDs every time.  Ran the usual set of diagnostics and stress testing on my new PC, no issues reported.  Tested P3D, XP, MSFS 2020, and suite of other demanding games and no issues … seems to be isolated to MSFS 2024.

All drivers are current (GPU/Chipset etc.).

Oh well, will wait until/if Asobo/MS get 2024 sorted out and buy again (maybe). 

3 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

Oh well, will wait until/if Asobo/MS get 2024 sorted out

Never had an issue with it. Best be getting your PC sorted out!

6 minutes ago, Torkermax said:

Best be getting your PC sorted out!

You mean my PC that works fine with MSFS 2020, P3D, XP?  It’s sorted thanks, maybe you need look outside your bubble.

9 hours ago, GoranM said:

First, a disclaimer.

(I've put Len on my ignore list, so I can't see his posts unless he is quoted, and my avsim life has become so much more peaceful when I don't have to read the majority of his [insert adjective/s here] "comments").  

Snap! Did that to him and a few of the other Asobo Apologists and it's a much better place to visit.

There's still an incredible amount of nonsense at times, but the main protagonists are ignored, just a shame when people get into petty arguments with them (see this thread for an example) I too see their posts in quotes but I scroll on by.

Some people are just not worth the time engaging with, life's too short.

25 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Snap! Did that to him and a few of the other Asobo Apologists and it's a much better place to visit.

Indeed it is. 
 

 

27 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Some people are just not worth the time engaging with, life's too short.

Indeed it is x 2!

@Rusty Spanner said it best. Len (and his  2 friends who blindly like every post he makes) needs to get out more.  

3 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

I take that back, MSFS 2024 is no more, got a refund approved (kinda surprised they approved).  

Tried to install MSFS 2024 “Aviator” on my new PC build and was never able to do a single flight, repeated CTD before I even got into a flight, couldn’t even get to the options page.  Virgin install with ZERO add-ons or modifications (the MS Store version for PC)

Not sure what happened, uninstalled MSFS 2024 from my other PC, installed on new PC and it CTDs every time.  Ran the usual set of diagnostics and stress testing on my new PC, no issues reported.  Tested P3D, XP, MSFS 2020, and suite of other demanding games and no issues … seems to be isolated to MSFS 2024.

All drivers are current (GPU/Chipset etc.).

Oh well, will wait until/if Asobo/MS get 2024 sorted out and buy again (maybe). 

Since you got your money back, I predict it will work perfectly with the Steam edition. I had 2020 Steam and then bought 2024 Store. I did not lose anything purchased for 2020 in 2024.

The one thing to worry about is that Steam only gives you 30 minutes trial, and then no refunds if use is over 30 minutes.

This post is not about which is better, it is about do you use both! I now have both and couldn’t be happier.

I answered yes to the following 5 questions which helped me make my decision:

1. Do you enjoy flight simming on MSFS?

2. Do you own a game ready computer?

3. Do you own a monitor, keyboard and mouse?

4. Do you already own flight sim hardware?

5. Can you afford $59 ( I gave up 4 Big Macs for the week)?

Since I answered yes to my own internal questions, it was a go for me.

Is MSFS 2024 momentous? Of course it is. Do I like XP12? Heck yeah.

Horses for courses. 

 

Edited May 13, 20251 yr by alanw2005

On 5/12/2025 at 1:08 PM, GoranM said:

Default?  MSFS default, with no streaming scenery?  Are you sure?

Streaming scenery available to the MSFS platform is not a default feature? Very interesting.

1 hour ago, alanw2005 said:

This post is not about which is better, it is about do you use both! I now have both and couldn’t be happier.

I answered yes to the following 5 questions which helped me make my decision:

1. Do you enjoy flight simming on MSFS?

2. Do you own a game ready computer?

3. Do you own a monitor, keyboard and mouse?

4. Do you already own flight sim hardware?

5. Can you afford $59 ( I gave up 4 Big Macs for the week)?

Since I answered yes to my own internal questions, it was a go for me.

Is MSFS 2024 momentous? Of course it is. Do I like XP12? Heck yeah.

Something is very wrong here.

Does anyone else feel like they're being sold something? Something they neither need nor want. 

Does anyone know how to test an article to determine if it has been written by AI?  Asking about "monitor, keyboard and mouse" separately from the computer is sending up all sorts of red flags for me.  Maybe appropriate for XBox, but not for "a game ready computer".

And now, back to your regularly scheduled flame wars.

Hook

45 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Streaming scenery available to the MSFS platform is not a default feature? Very interesting.

I prefer to make objectively fair comparisons.  If you want to take advantage of a feature, that can be disabled, against a platform that doesn’t have it built in due to licensing issues, as a way to win an argument, have at it. I’ll take auto ortho with its customizable ZL’s, any day. 

17 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I prefer to make objectively fair comparisons.  If you want to take advantage of a feature, that can be disabled, against a platform that doesn’t have it built in due to licensing issues, as a way to win an argument, have at it. I’ll take auto ortho with its customizable ZL’s, any day. 

Just because something can be disabled, does not stop it from being default. Both sims have live weather which can be disabled. Should we take that out of the equation too? It's not MSFS' fault that LR cannot make use of streaming scenery in-house. An objectively fair comparison of the two sims in their default states should absolutely include MSFS streaming because it is in fact, default.

Edited May 14, 20251 yr by Krakin

51 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Just because something can be disabled, does not stop is from being default.

Does one have something the other doesn’t have?  If yes, not a fair comparison. If no, fair comparison. 
I suppose you think it’s fair to compare the Inibuilds DEFAULT Airbus to the x-plane default Airbus. One is made by a 3rd party that Asobo threw a bag of money to. The other one isn’t. 
 

51 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Both sims have live weather which can be disabled. Should we take that out of the equation too?

why?  They both have it. That’s a fair comparison. 
 

 

51 minutes ago, Krakin said:

It's not MSFS' fault that LR cannot make use of streaming scenery in-house.

Never said it was. Would you put a Tesla up against a Porsche?  It’s not Tesla’s fault that Porsche doesn’t have an electric motor in it with ridiculous acceleration. Both are “default”.  
 

 

51 minutes ago, Krakin said:

An objectively fair comparison of the two sims in their default states should absolutely include MSFS streaming because it is in fact, default.

Ok, then we can submit both flight sims for an independent review of their streaming scenery and objectively compare them. Wait. We can’t. The reviewer would simply mark “N/A” next to x-plane due to its absence of default streaming scenery. 
Turn off the feature that is streaming scenery, then do a true comparison of default autogen. 

Again, if it makes you sleep better at night, have at it. No one is convincing you otherwise. Simply choose to disagree.  Stop being so invested in a flight sim HOBBY.  

Edited May 14, 20251 yr by GoranM

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Would you put a Tesla up against a Porsche?  It’s not Tesla’s fault that Porsche doesn’t have an electric motor in it with ridiculous acceleration.

While I understand your point, and it is valid, there are more important things than acceleration, even in racing. Which car, Tesla or Porsche, could win the 24 hours of Le Mans?

The rest of this post isn't directed at you, GoranM.

Since my sim flying is generally period aircraft in mostly period conditions, FAA certification has no use for me. I'm more interested in which sims are used for real world military training. Anyone care to guess which sims are (and are not) used by the military? One that surprised me was the A-10 in DCS.  I suppose people who have never flown anything but tubeliners would be more interested in FAA certification. The closest I'll get will be flying a DC-3 where such things matter somewhat less, especially in the pre-FAA days before WW2.

Choose a sim that fits your use profile, but never assume other sims won't be better for other uses.

Hook

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Does one have something the other doesn’t have?  If yes, not a fair comparison. If no, fair comparison. 
I suppose you think it’s fair to compare the Inibuilds DEFAULT Airbus to the x-plane default Airbus. One is made by a 3rd party that Asobo threw a bag of money to. The other one isn’t. 
 

why?  They both have it. That’s a fair comparison. 
 

 

Never said it was. Would you put a Tesla up against a Porsche?  It’s not Tesla’s fault that Porsche doesn’t have an electric motor in it with ridiculous acceleration. Both are “default”.  
 

 

Ok, then we can submit both flight sims for an independent review of their streaming scenery and objectively compare them. Wait. We can’t. The reviewer would simply mark “N/A” next to x-plane due to its absence of default streaming scenery. 
Turn off the feature that is streaming scenery, then do a true comparison of default autogen. 

Again, if it makes you sleep better at night, have at it. No one is convincing you otherwise. Simply choose to disagree.  Stop being so invested in a flight sim HOBBY.  

Riiight because the only time someone is not being too invested is when you're the one expressing an opinion. Gotcha.

If you're having a discussion and you start to feel backed into a corner, you probably shouldn't resort to trying to make people seem to be unhinged. It adds nothing to your points and it just makes you look like you're starting to crumble.

 

When making comparisons, taking note of one thing having features that the other doesn't have is absolutely a consideration. People make decisions based on this every single day.