Grown men squabbling over a $200 piece of software...quite entertaining. In fact, much more entertaining than some of the Netflix and Amazon Prime stuff my better half has me roped into periodically.

Yes, it has warts, some as big as the ones on the face of the Wicked Witch of the West in The Wizard Of Oz, but on whole, a magnificent effort. Years ago, after the demise of FSX, and Flight, and the Dovetail fiasco, and after the "Great Recession" kicked my butt, I figured my flight sim days were over (yes, I know all about, and owned X-Plane, but for some reason it never appealed to me). Despite all those warts, I am still looking at this with a glass half full view, rather than the other way around.

Regarding those who complain about the cost of the product, I went out to dinner last night...and two decent meals, a bottle of wine, and tip are almost the same price. And we all know where that is today, vs. something I can keep on enjoying for a long time to come.

In any case, keep up the good work entertaining me, the popcorn is at the ready, and its fun to check in here daily to see the combatants go at each other!

Cheaper dinner ideas...

 

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Ahhh so everthing is perfect for you, and me and my 'buddies' are just wrong? Correct?

I don't think that is what @Noel said. The way I read it he was pointing out you and others only focus on the negatives. But I remember you yourself have stated positive things about the sim as well, the others may have too...

4 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

No more needs to be said. 

Apart from this 😁; without denying the obvious problem here, could it be not everyone is experiencing it? The thread you linked to has a whopping 59 replies. There are many, many more users of MSFS 2024. I have also noticed the popping, but it always happened much further away than ten meters...

Edited May 23, 20251 yr by Rimshot

33 minutes ago, Jaxsimmer said:

In any case, keep up the good work entertaining me, the popcorn is at the ready, and its fun to check in here daily to see the combatants go at each other!

You should join in! Oh... you already did 😆

7 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

You should join in! Oh... you already did 😆

Schrödinger's cat - the sim is both good and bad at the same time...depending on the observation.

9 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

Apart from this 😁; without denying the obvious problem here, could it be not everyone is experiencing it? The thread you linked to has a whopping 59 replies. There are many, many more users of MSFS 2024. I have also noticed the popping, but it always happened much farther away than ten meters...

Everyone experiences these sims differently to greater or lesser degrees.  I focus strongly on piloting as perfectly as possible so will very possibly miss the pop in issue.  It's possible my brain, being interested in staying in reality not in fantasy perfection causes me to ignore pop in behavior.  In any case if I were to rate having an occasional pop-in in terms of being detrimental to what I get out of my use of sims, it would be minor to irrelevant.  My brain focuses on all of the scenery already there, that 99.99%, not the 0.009% that pops in.  Ian's brain is tuned to imperfection.  I feel for him must be a difficult place to live, along with Greazer.  Of course if pop-in were right in front of me constantly, you know that 10 foot 😂 thing, well sure of course that would be intolerable for me and all others, but that is not the case here.  Again, not only do users focus on different elements but their own system configurations have essentially infinite variability.  

So much drama, same old 2020 vs 2024, this thread needs to be closed.

Edited May 23, 20251 yr by CarlosF

25 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

Apart from this 😁; without denying the obvious problem here, could it be not everyone is experiencing it? The thread you linked to has a whopping 59 replies. There are many, many more users of MSFS 2024. I have also noticed the popping, but it always happened much farther away than ten meters...

The overall problem is that whenever someone says they have a problem or an issue either here or even on the official forums. Some people cant help themselves with either commenting "well i don't have these issues your talking about" or they go full on stating that the issue lies with them or their configuration. All without going into use case and system configuration. They just post .. It works for me!!

It appears the motive for posting "well i don't have this issue" is not to assist the person with an issue .. Its to be contrarian and invite that open ended doubt as to whether the problem is important or valid enough to be fixed by the dev or not. 

On the flip side you have a bunch of "chicken little's  that use every platform they get to complain. Its just as bad because their message may be factually correct and requires attention but the constant complaining and scattershot approach devalues the aim of getting their issue fixed. Because eventually .. they get ignored.

 

I'm with @CarlosF on this one .. We have moved way past the original topic at this point. I wouldn't mind a lock. Enough squabbling going on as it is in other threads.

 

 

If we move beyond the 2020 versus 2024 comments, what I found helpful in the discussion is the recognition that we experience the sim differently, depending on what we expect, what is important to us, and how we use the sim. So much of this is an expression of what we value in the sim, but we do not all value the same things to the same degree, or in the same order. When this is not clearly expressed the opinion can come across as an overly objective statement of worth, and then people feel they need to counter this.

I have seen popping in and it can be annoying. I only fly to third-party airports, however, and I can say that the way those airports are designed is a big factor in the amount of popping I see. The old ports from 2020 are the worst. Last night when I landed in Anchorage the ILS towers all popped in before me as I was less than 100 feet near the threshold of the runway. But this does not happen nearly to the same degree at the very well designed and optimized San Francisco. I have no idea what happens at default airports because I have never flown out of one in 2024, really never!  I have  also seen it in the scenery when taking off or landing if I pan about. However, it really does not bother me much. I rarely pan around when I am taking off or landing as I am focused on piloting, on my instruments and the runway in front of me. I have little interest in MSFS as a scenery simulator, although I like how reflective it is of the real world. I likely do not notice it nearly as much as it happens, and when I do I don't really care. It does not affect much my focus on what I am doing and my sense of immersion. But I can also understand how someone else would find this completely distracting and annoying to the point of not wanting to use the sim.  Do I think they should rework the LOD architecture, of course; but it does not affect how I value the sim.

Another example is AI traffic. I think 2024 may be the worst implementation of this in any sim, ever. It is terrible and I can find absolutely no redeeming aspect of a very poorly implemented feature, in my mind they should not have even bothered with it if that is the best they can do. But, I just turn it off and use BATC to give some sense of airport activity and forget about it. I don't care if there is accurate traffic at the airport, it would be nice but I don't value it very much so it does not take away from how I enjoy the sim. It is not for me a plane spotter sim, although I surmise from some of the posts here that that is how some people use it. For others realistic and consistent air traffic is important to enjoy the experience. If so, I get how frustrating it must be. I just don't personally care.

A lot of this depends on what is important to you. For me, 2024 checks pretty much all the important boxes, I can sim the way I want with not real issues, and so I quite enjoy it. But I can recognize the issues others are having, especially given the statements and hype that was built around 2024 in the months leading up to its release. 

 

Edited May 23, 20251 yr by Cognita

1 hour ago, Jaxsimmer said:

Schrödinger's cat - the sim is both good and bad at the same time...depending on the observation.

Oh, good! Yes! Cats are in the thread 😃

And poison 😞

Was the bottle cork lifted, or pounded tighter ?

 

 

 

 

I don't know why, but I'm still hoping out for multiple jetway support. But that's probably a pipe-dream...

3 hours ago, Cognita said:

If we move beyond the 2020 versus 2024 comments, what I found helpful in the discussion is the recognition that we experience the sim differently, depending on what we expect, what is important to us, and how we use the sim. So much of this is an expression of what we value in the sim, but we do not all value the same things to the same degree, or in the same order. When this is not clearly expressed the opinion can come across as an overly objective statement of worth, and then people feel they need to counter this.

I have seen popping in and it can be annoying. I only fly to third-party airports, however, and I can say that the way those airports are designed is a big factor in the amount of popping I see. The old ports from 2020 are the worst. Last night when I landed in Anchorage the ILS towers all popped in before me as I was less than 100 feet near the threshold of the runway. But this does not happen nearly to the same degree at the very well designed and optimized San Francisco. I have no idea what happens at default airports because I have never flown out of one in 2024, really never!  I have  also seen it in the scenery when taking off or landing if I pan about. However, it really does not bother me much. I rarely pan around when I am taking off or landing as I am focused on piloting, on my instruments and the runway in front of me. I have little interest in MSFS as a scenery simulator, although I like how reflective it is of the real world. I likely do not notice it nearly as much as it happens, and when I do I don't really care. It does not affect much my focus on what I am doing and my sense of immersion. But I can also understand how someone else would find this completely distracting and annoying to the point of not wanting to use the sim.  Do I think they should rework the LOD architecture, of course; but it does not affect how I value the sim.

Another example is AI traffic. I think 2024 may be the worst implementation of this in any sim, ever. It is terrible and I can find absolutely no redeeming aspect of a very poorly implemented feature, in my mind they should not have even bothered with it if that is the best they can do. But, I just turn it off and use BATC to give some sense of airport activity and forget about it. I don't care if there is accurate traffic at the airport, it would be nice but I don't value it very much so it does not take away from how I enjoy the sim. It is not for me a plane spotter sim, although I surmise from some of the posts here that that is how some people use it. For others realistic and consistent air traffic is important to enjoy the experience. If so, I get how frustrating it must be. I just don't personally care.

A lot of this depends on what is important to you. For me, 2024 checks pretty much all the important boxes, I can sim the way I want with not real issues, and so I quite enjoy it. But I can recognize the issues others are having, especially given the statements and hype that was built around 2024 in the months leading up to its release. 

 

Excellent perspective all 'round! Hear, hear!!

I hadn't noticed the difference in pop-in relative to the edition of the sim the payware was designed around. And by that I mean literally took no notice, not that it doesn't happen.

I do fly into a broad spectrum of airports, from backwater defaults, to freeware of all levels, and payware at varying levels (tho I stick to the ones from better devs).

Anecdotally, I feel like every airport has some type of noticable "defect" - if you look hard enough. And it's especially apparent if one has visited IRL.

And since I like helicopters, believe me, all the scenery can get surreal from time to time

But as you say, and IMHO, it's more about Suspension of DIS-belief. And at that, MSFS is well above par.

6 hours ago, Rimshot said:

I don't think that is what @Noel said.

Yep, it’s not what he said at all, but hyperbolists gonna hyperbole.

I find the commenters calling for Jorg to stop these dev streams funny.

We are supposed to be all for transparency, and having a regular insight into how things are progressing is useful.
Otherwise how would you even know something is getting addressed?

Yeah sure the sim didn't launch in a great state, but the focus should be on what comes next.
Personally I found Jorg pausing the stream to address further VRAM comments that were popping up in the chat really useful. He also acknowledged live comments about renting planes and prices.

That's exactly the sort of things we need.