I am hoping you guys can help me understand the error in my ways, because flight planning is really a struggle for me. For the record, I have BATC, Navigraph (paid plan), Simbrief, and I am currently flying the Citation X. 

My flight is from KLAX to KSMF. 

In Simbrief I create the flight which by default gives me this route: 

KLAX/24L N0488F400 LADYJ4 CSTRO DCT NURAY SUUTR4 KSMF/35L

I manually enter this flight info into the Citation. Everything matches up perfectly. 

I contact BATC and listen to the ATIS. Only runways 6L/R and 7L/R are active. BATC tells me to use 6R and also tells me that I need to transition via KOUFAX, so my entire flight plan is hosed. I look at Navigraph and it tells me that runways 6 and 7 (L/R) are NOT USED. I go into the Citation and cannot find KOUFAX for runway 6R. 

I want to think that this is a data problem so maybe I am looking in the wrong place? I have the Navigraph Hub and everything is up-to-date. 

Anyone have any idea why these issues are happening frequently?

According to the FAQ at beyond ATC its pulling its information from the sim. 

https://www.beyondatc.net/faq

Therefore if you want to standardize everything you probably want to ensure that you're using the latest airac cycle from navigraph in msfs2024 (replacing the default sim airac) so beyond ATC can pull the data.

As it regards to the runway assignment.. I believe (guessing) that's a weather thing (and the time it was assessed) so you're going to be on your toes occasionally for that one. But if BATC gives you a runway and a SID to fly and you updated the sim database to navigraph and you're using simbrief with the same matching airac you should not have any issues. 

Unless of course the Citation is not reading the updated airac from the sim and has no way of being updated. 

Edited February 10Feb 10 by Maxis

Hey Maxis. Microsoft states that MSFS 2020 and 2024 have been updated to AIRAC 2601. You are right, it most likely is weather related. It appears that Navigraph/Simbrief don't provide real-time runway assignments, even though in Navigraph settings I have specified to prioritize ATIS Runway Status to "Real." As far as the missing SID I can't find it in Navigraph either so I don't think it is Citation related. It seems that BATC had it right, but Navigraph/Simbrief are not giving accurate real-time runway assignments.  

Runways and SID/STARs are assigned by ATC, and since you are using BATC, you should adhere to whatever it says. Having said that, the program might be wrong. Runways are normally assigned according to wind direction (headwind is the way to go). Assuming you planned your flight within the last hour or so, here is the current METAR for KLAX:

101653Z 07005KT 10SM SCT013 BKN026 OVC140 16/13 A2995 RMK AO2 SLP140 T01610133 

I have highlighted the wind indication, which tells you you have wind coming from 070 degrees at 5 Knots. That makes 6L/R and 7L/R good choices, and so you should use that.

Why does Navigraph/Simbrief give you something else? Sometimes, a NOTAM is out that specific runways are not in use (think of construction, an incident, or birds). BATC probably doesn't monitor that, but Navigraph does. More likely, the two programs may use different weather sources. For instance, if you fly with historical weather, you can forget about anything that Navigraph tells you.

As for your workflow, I suggest not putting in runway and SID until you have contacted BATC. Leave the arrival and landing runway open until later during the flight.

Peter

2 minutes ago, RobJC said:

 It appears that Navigraph/Simbrief don't provide real-time runway assignments

This is correct. Navigraph weather is not always and rarely up to date. Where BATC gets and uses the latest weather.

Dot not load your Sid and star into the route. Just load the route and wait for BATC to give you the rwy and SID to use.

You can usually load the Star ahead of time. That should not change, but the approach and runway might, so better ready for that.

Just tell BATC you are ready for descend even if you are not. Maybe 20 NM before you think you will descend.

This will give you time to enter your approach and runway info and get your bearings. 

 

Also runway 6 does not use the ladyJ SID, it uses WNNDY3 that leads you to Kofax..

Usually BATC would have told you to use SID WNNDY with the Kofax transition.

 

I have related problems with FSHUD sometimes, giving me opposite runway than I got from navigraph. I assume low winds or crosswinds can cause these problems.

Thanks guys! I knew it was something I was doing to complicate the process. Appreciate the help!

I actually find it odd that BATC would use the 6 and 7 runways with winds 070/5.  LAX normally prefers the 24/25s…is a five knot tail wind enough to overrule that preference?  BATC as I understand it is programmed for real world ops, wind limitations, preferred runways etc at many airports.

Having said that, I’ve certainly had times where the assigned runways don’t make sense either for the weather or real world ops.  In those cases I shut it down, take off, then reconnect in the air.

I’ve had some experiences at YYZ where the crosswind runways (15/33s) would be active when the crosswind was not sufficient for them to be running, then the cross wind runways not active when the crosswind was too strong for the main runways to be active.  I recall seeing a YYZ update recently so perhaps that has been fixed.

What weather source does BATC use?  I find the ATIS often doesn’t match up with the weather conditions I see in the sim using live weather - mostly minor things like the wind being a bit different speed, altimeter not the same etc so it’s often close, but not quite right.

Edited February 10Feb 10 by regis9

The only time LAX departures use 6 and & LR, is when its weather related, storm coming in from over the pacific. 98% of the time 24 and 25 LR are being used for TO and landings.

2 hours ago, Ron Lefebvre said:

Navigraph weather is not always and rarely up to date

Odd, why would that be the case?  I’ll have to validate (I always just assume Navigraph weather was accurate) … weather updates shouldn’t be an issue with Navigraph … since I’m always live, I guess I could validate against RealTraffic radar to see what runways are being used in real-time.

3 hours ago, qqwertz said:

As for your workflow, I suggest not putting in runway and SID until you have contacted BATC.

This.

This is what I do with BATC as I have noted that (for the various applicable reasons), assigned runways do vary from the Simbrief OFP, more often than when I used SI (which always uses the Simbrief runway and SID).

I find that if I create the flight plan in Little Nav Map and export it to Simbrief it works better with BATC.

12 minutes ago, JYW said:

(which always uses the Simbrief runway and SID).

SI only uses Simbrief runways every time if you turn on the option to force them under realism settings.

When that's off it will use whatever runways it thinks are appropriate for the wind. If you're constantly getting the simbrief assigned runways, then you've just been lucky, or that option is turned on for you.

https://sayintentionsai.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/154000235825-why-does-atc-sometimes-use-runways-that-differ-from-real-world-ops-

It's the same for BATC, though some airports in BATC do have ops profiles based off community suggestions that will determine what runways to use in what kinds of weather.

Edited February 10Feb 10 by Tuskin38

Flew the same flight plan and had another issue. I did not specify the approach and runway, and the runway BATC provided was not listed in the Citation. I was unable to change the runway, so I had to shutdown BATC at the latter stages of the flight. 

I'm guessing BATC just uses a generic template for its runways in use (most aligned with the wind).  Others have already answered but LAX will use west flow with a tailwind of less than 10 knots.  (If you're from Socal and its different go ahead and correct me, that's how it used to be).

So anyway, be flexible if you really want to use BATC.  And use your subscription and all of the power of the navigraph charts since you're paying for it.  I added KLAX and KSMF and then selected runway 7R - this is the runway you would be assigned with east flow because the C750 will park on the south midfield ramp - either Atlantic or Signature.  During west flow you'll be assigned 25L.  When I selected 7R it tells me the LADYJ sid is not available.  So no big deal, just look at the visual assortment of SIDs, and pick one that departs in the direction you're headed.  Looks like the WNNDY3 goes that way and perhaps try the COREZ transition.

Verify the SID is correct by looking at the chart (it is because you can see the east runways listed under the initial climb section - and also that the initial heading is 071.  The TOP ALTITUDE in real life is what you'll set in your ALT SEL window as long as there are no at or below crossing restrictions.  There aren't any, just the AT OR ABOVE 6300 at JRGSN.  Also in real life you'll probably get step climbed by ATC cause socal is super busy hehe.  And then in the sim BATC is stupid imo (and not that great of an app - but it's better than nothing) so they'll probably level you off at 5000 and send you straight for the mountains LOL.

And then I loaded NURAY SUUTR4 into SMF and it looks okay here.  As to what happened with the approach and runway change, happens ALL the time in real life... (so hey they got that aspect correct hehe).  What runway and approach did BATC select - the C750 is capable of flying all types of approaches I believe...  possibly not RNP-AR's though (would be listed as RNAV(RNP))... I can't recall off the top of my head.  But any RNAV(GPS)or ILS/LOC or VOR should work fine.

 

(Embed is apparently NOT working on avsim right now) - but here are the pics

https://flic.kr/p/2rVZvWe

https://flic.kr/p/2rVZvVY

https://flic.kr/p/2rW6pJz

Edited February 11Feb 11 by ryanbatc