People have stopped buying in the FS9 area... period.

Then I must be a rhinoceros!

I for one commend Rob and the Eaglesoft team for coming onto a forum like this and giving the developers angle. Not one other developer has said anything. Most just say put up or shut up regarding this subject.I also just wanted to point out something. We haven't lost that many developers to FSX only production. The ones that I know we have lost are Level D, PMDG (dependant on the NGX,) and CaptainSim (boo hoo.) We sill have Feelthere/Wilco, FSDreamteam, Imaginesim, Blueprint Simulations, FS2Crew, HiFi Simulations, REX, QualityWings, AirSi...nevermind, FlyTampa, and TropicalSim. And those are the ones that I can think of off the top. It is definitely a blow for fs9 to lose PMDG, but I haven't lost any sleep over it. I also know that there will be people that will switch to FSX just for PMDG products, but again, I'm not that gullible. I would love to have an updated 737NG, but if PMDG won't deliver it for fs9, another developer will grab the bull by the horns. Regardless, you won't see me at the bar crying in my beer.I have FSX...tucked under a buch of papers in the back of my filing cabinet. It has been there for over a year, and that's where it will stay. Sure it has the road traffic and more autogen, but I can't see that stuff from FL410 anyways.

I believe that for serious fans of this barmy hobby, the FS9 vs FSX debate is moot, because most of us would buy a much anticipated complex add-on for whatever sim it was released for. Airsimmer A320 proved that for me. I had uninstalled FS9 years earlier but reinstalled it for the Airsimmer and have been thoroughly enjoying my time with it (it IS a bloody good add-on if you're lucky enough not to get any CTDs like me!).I mean if a "PMDG-quality" Dash 8-Q300 was released out of the blue for FS9 only, who of the hardcore aircraft FSX simmers wouldn't buy it?Both sims have their strengts and weaknesses. After 3 years and after finally getting smooth high performance from it, I still regard FSX as an unreliable version of the franchise. Have some conflicts with graphics drivers, etc, etc that I get none of with FS9.For me, an analogy would be 'vinyl versus CD' in the music world. FS9 is vinyl with it's analogue feel, it's technical imperfections that somehow make it nice (like analogue music from the 80s somehow sounds sweeter than cold digital recordings of today).I love both sims and will buy quality add-ons for both.I also "buy people", which is why I'm more likely (from this debate) to 'buy from Les' than 'from Ron'. :(

See this is where you get yourself in trouble and the developers get themselves in trouble. I am as hard core as you can get and I would NOT buy a Dash 8-Q300 because I'm not interested in regional flying. Would I spend the money just to play with it once or twice and then never see it again? Probably not. Regional and corporate aircraft are very much niche markets. You forget that the majority of the community are NOT hard core simmers. You also forget that even the hardest core simmer, like myself, won't spend money on something that I'll never use...I've done enough of that and have plenty of aircraft on my HD that I'll never use.This plays right into what Ron from Eaglesoft said. People ask, they develop and sales are terrible.

I will say again (purely for note by AVSIM administrators, no debate will be entered into) that I find the saturation of AVSIM discussion forums by the Eaglesoft 'machine' (typically Ron, Ed and occassionally a third 'reserve battery' whose name escapes me), off-putting, tiring and bordering on the offensive. Every thread I read becomes dominated by the opinionated, over-commercially-biased [sic], patronizing views of these people.I know developers support AVSIM (commercially and otherwise) but to sit quiet and allow this is grossly unfair on other more moderate developers who make their contributions to the forums on a 'give some take some' basis.All I see from the Eaglesoft team here are superiority-complex-ridden [sic] 'put downs', obsessive 'last word domination' tactics and of course, the tiresome diversion of debates across the forum onto Eaglesoft sales progression.I'm getting really [sic] of it. Davido.

Davido, if you are [sic] of our participation then we suggest you do not read them. We've done no harm to you.Don't like us personally? Grow up and get over it. :( We have no less right to post here than you do so let it go bud. :(

Then I must be a rhinoceros!

We have the begginings of a herd, Rafal. Got the Capt Sim MiG-21 (on sale) and the Maddog 2008 Pro this week.Cheers, SLuggy

Ron I applaud the fact your going to see your existing in development projects through to their intended platform (FS9). When you finally release your Diamond DA42, Cessna Citation CJ1+ Extreme V2.0, Cessna Citation XLS Extreme V2.0, Cirrus SR22G3 Turbo Perspective, and Dornier 328 Jet your going to see more FS9 profit than you previously thought you'd bring in. The problem is will you admit it, tell us, and adjust accordingly or is the honest fact that developing for one platform more efficient than two? In the case of PMDG no amount of money will sway them from FSX only development it's not about money or the community going away from FS9. It's the opposite actually, the developer going away from FS9. I didn't know until reading through this thread FS9 simmers offered to pay PMDG in advance for a FS9 version of the NGX. I would have been in on that myself. If that doesn't tell you it's not about money anymore nothing will...

Dillon, we are not soliciting applause for our decision to honor our commitment to do the Diamond DA42 Twinstar, CJ1+ Extreme 2.0, Citaion XLS Extreme 2.0, Cirrus SR22G3 Turbo Perspective, and the Dornier 328 Jet for both FS9 and FSX.What you and others cannot know are the FSX Only surprise projects that that will likely be released before the above list is completed.Frankly, we wish that your view of future FS9 Project sales numbers would be the case but we are faced with the facts each month that same product FSX sales numbers exceed FS9 numbers by a wide margin.Our expectation is that when the above list is completed the ratio between same project FSX and FS9 sales numbers will remain fairly constant. In fact, we will be pleasantly surprised if that scenario changes for the better and lasts more than 60 days. :(

I will say again (purely for note by AVSIM administrators, no debate will be entered into) that I find the saturation of AVSIM discussion forums by the Eaglesoft 'machine' (typically Ron, Ed and occassionally a third 'reserve battery' whose name escapes me), off-putting, tiring and bordering on the offensive.

I thought "offensive" was like being pregnant... You either are or you are not.

Every thread I read becomes dominated by the opinionated, over-commercially-biased [sic], patronizing views of these people.

If that were true, they would not be here Davido. And believe me; Ron and his team know our rules and policies.

I know developers support AVSIM (commercially and otherwise) but to sit quiet and allow this is grossly unfair on other more moderate developers who make their contributions to the forums on a 'give some take some' basis.

You haven't been a member here long enough to know that Ron and his team for a short time in 2007 advertised with us. Three years ago. Whether they have advertised or not, we do enforce our policies and rules - equally. Every developer and publisher in the community is very aware of that.

All I see from the Eaglesoft team here are superiority-complex-ridden [sic] 'put downs', obsessive 'last word domination' tactics and of course, the tiresome diversion of debates across the forum onto Eaglesoft sales progression.I'm getting really [sic] of it. Davido.

If you see all of that in their messages here, send an alert. But, before you do, understand that Ron and his team are allowed to have an opinion, just like you. As with all members of the forum, if anyone steps over the line in contravention of our rules and policies, we will enforce them. But... we need to be alerted in order to view the offending message(s).

Thank you for clarifying Tom. We do indeed know the rules and fully intend to follow them to the letter.

To all FS9 developers I say bring it on...I am going nowhere! :(

Same here. :( I am also very surprised about CLS decision to go FSX. :( B)

Personally, I don't see any tradegy with CLS going FSX-only, since I'm pretty sure that nothing will beat LH Maddog in the near future (3-5 years) on the market of compehensive planes. Of course, if you're looking for visuals, so yes - FSX is your niche. Other than that, everything is normal and predictictable, i.e. FS2004 and FSX are both doomed to be parrallel platforms for a long time until new sim will show up.

I don't really get why this discussion is so long or so heated? The decline if FS2004 is inevitable. I am one of the many who have stuck with fs2004 for performance and other reasons, and I've been extremely happy with my decision. While I am saddened that add-on support is dwindling, I can't say I'm a bit surprised. No matter what your opinion on FSX is eventually hardware will catch up. I remember back in the FS98 and 2000 days where people thought 2000 would "never run". Of course eventually it did. While it made a ton of sense for many to stick with FS98 at that time, eventually the time came for everyone to move on.Honestly, I'm amazed that we've come this far and still have releases coming out. The volume of fs2004 add-ons is astounding and honestly I doubt in all my years I've experienced anywhere near half of it. Even before FSX the add-on market wasn't exactly what I would call "great". Development times increased as well as complexity. Once FSX came out it took a niche market and split it into two pieces. I'm no industry expert but clearly that was not a good thing for the market. Personally I am supporting the few vendors we have left supporting fs2004 and enjoying my time with the hobby. Who knows what the future will hold for us. We've all heard the discussions, but nothing is certain other than uncertainty. The only sure thing is that we have fs2004 and fsx right now and eventually PC hardware will make FSX viable for everyone. The only question is when.

Bob, Aerosoft says their FS9 sales are little more than 10% of their FSX sales FOR A PRODUCT THAT IS MADE BOTH FOR FS9 AND FSX.

sorry, i don't get this. if it's one license for both (i bought from them many times the two versions with one license), how would sales for one simulator exceed the other? p.s. there is nothing that asks the user which simulator he's buying for during the purchase process.

Don't know if that product is a so called "Dual Sim Version" at one price for both or not.I know we took a lot of heat for selling Aircraft for FSX and FS9 but there is simply no way to accomplish a true FSX model and FS9 model at one pricepoint.

Cohort wrote;"...I also just wanted to point out something. We haven't lost that many developers to FSX only production. The ones that I know we have lost are Level D, PMDG (dependant on the NGX,)...I would love to have an updated 737NG, but if PMDG won't deliver it for fs9,...

Sorry Cohort, but i think one of the PMDG developers accidently spilled the beans a while ago.Basically what happened was someone quoted an article from a magazine stating that PMDG were making the 737 NG for FS9. Below is the response from one of the developers which was later deleted (not before i saved it), along with two of my threads that were started in response to it.

PMDG developer;"...What do you guys think we're doing here exactly? Do you think this is some sort of conspiracy where we make money every time MS sells a copy of FSX or something? MSFS is dead, there's no reason for us to support one sim over the other aside from what we have seen in our sales trends. I dont know where that magazine got its information btw (probably very old sorce material)-we are NOT doing an FS9NG..."

Dont have a problem with them going FSX only, but when you promise something for years and then turn around and say, nope aint happenin', well thats not good business, trust goes out the door.

We have the begginings of a herd, Rafal. Got the Capt Sim MiG-21 (on sale) and the Maddog 2008 Pro this week.Cheers, SLuggy

Now I understand why we have this debate over and over again !Ostriches (FSX