How can an opinion be false? Ok, whatever, I didn't want to start anything, so...Mustangs is great! Go get it. I fly it a lot. One of the more enjoyable aircraft I have in my hangar. :(

How can an opinion be false?

In my opinion, the sun is BLUE!

I really don't understand what you guys are expecting from devs.If they say nothing, they are screwed, if they say anything, they are screwed and arrogant. :(

Have to agree, there is such a thing as ''over defending'' a product. And over defending a product is not good for customer relations.Just maybe, flight sim developers fall into the trap of getting too involved in such debates, becoming a little too defensive. In my humble opinion, I don't see that as a positive thing.

If someone is unjustly (at least in the eyes of the developer) criticising a project that a developer has spent hundreds or even thousands of hours putting out there, then they are going to defend it. At the end of the day they are just as entitled as anyone else to post in a public forum, occaisionally they may come across as defensive - then again sometimes the people attacking the product may come across as trolls.G

Hm, I wonder from whom you might have heard that one... :(Okay, someone asked about the process of development. I'm not about to write a complete precis of the process, but for just one seemingly "simple" piece of avionics such as a GTX330...1. obtain the official documents from Bendix-King (136 pages), and read, read, and re-read2. flow-chart all operations in proper sequence to establish the flow of user control and/or input3. make a list of features that are possible to accomplish in FS (in this instance everything was reproducible)4. make a decision on whether to code in C/C++/GDI+ or XML scripting.5. begin coding/scripting the logic dictated by step #26. code/script each 'screen page' and write the control logic for the switches, knobs, buttons, etc.7. test, recode, test, recode, test, repeat, wash and rinse until doneI actually kept track of the hours for this project. Total time from beginning to end: 68 man hours. At my normal "free-lance rate" of $85/billable hour, that comes to $5,780......unfortunately, I can only wish that I'd eventually earn that much over time! :(Thank you for the reply. This exactly the kind of information that needs to be compiled so that people "have a clue". Most of us don't get paid 85.00 per hour but I understand your point and I know that you almost never would recover that kind of money unless you sold the product through the US Congress. For us adverage folks stop and think....even at 20.00 per hour that comes to $1360.00 and that is for one small part of a flight model. makes 30-50 dollar price range look pretty good!! I just wish we could all stop arguing and we would all have more fun at this hobby. There will always be some trolls here but for the most part everyone here is looking for some more knowledge or information. Devs also have to understand that we as customers are not interested in how important you are. We don't want to hear about how busy you are. Case in point, one Dev if you check will respond almost within seconds of his name appearing. I have been at this hobby many years....back to sub logic days. I have I believe, ask him two questions and both answers we how busy he is and customers don't understand. When I see this example the question as a customer is always..."Man if you are so busy and your life is so bad, How do you find the time to be on the forums 24/7." Why do I not care..... in the last few weeks I had a 1000.00 car repair bill, My boat broke and is out of waranty, One of my computer's mother board went back for RMA and the Electronic control board went bad on my electric stove. I would venture to say that not one Dev out there care's about that. Your have no reason to care. We as customers don't always want to hear your problems...we are interested in trying to find solutions and reasons and in some cases understanding of the process.

"I just wish we could all stop arguing and we would all have more fun at this hobby. There will always be some trolls here but for the most part everyone here is looking for some more knowledge or information. Devs also have to understand that we as customers are not interested in how important you are. We don't want to hear about how busy you are. Case in point, one Dev if you check will respond almost within seconds of his name appearing. I have been at this hobby many years....back to sub logic days. I have I believe, ask him two questions and both answers we how busy he is and customers don't understand. When I see this example the question as a customer is always..."Man if you are so busy and your life is so bad, How do you find the time to be on the forums 24/7." Why do I not care..... in the last few weeks I had a 1000.00 car repair bill, My boat broke and is out of waranty, One of my computer's mother board went back for RMA and the Electronic control board went bad on my electric stove. Iwould venture to say that not one Dev out there care's about that. Your have no reason to care. We as customers don't always want to hear your problems...we are interested in trying to find solutions and reasons and in some cases understanding of the process."Sam,You may be surprised that we agree with your post...Customers need not care about challenges Devs face any more than than Devs need to be concerned about customers appliance challenges.In our case, the focus is rather narrow in that we have no illusions about self importance or that our products are the the road to Nirvana.We simply build the best products/feature sets we can build within the confines of pricing limitations and hope to satisfy the majority of customers.We do offer refund options for those we cannot satisfy because we do not wish to have your money unless you are satisfied. :( What we will not be silent about is the all too common posting of misleading or outright untrue statements under the guize of opinion.

I really don't understand what you guys are expecting from devs.If they say nothing, they are screwed, if they say anything, they are screwed and arrogant. :(

Exactly. :(

If someone is unjustly (at least in the eyes of the developer) criticising a project that a developer has spent hundreds or even thousands of hours putting out there, then they are going to defend it. At the end of the day they are just as entitled as anyone else to post in a public forum

Absolutely, I completely agree with you. It's understandable that a manufacturer of a product, a product that's responsible for putting bread on the table, should be somewhat peeved, if points are raised that are inaccurate.It's also perfectly reasonable for the said manufacturer to make a respectful attempt to correct those views.But when politely correcting inaccurate statements spirals into a heated debate, it no longer serves their best interests in my view.The tendency is a product of the Internet. The Internet, and more importantly forums like this, make software developers very accessible, accessible by customers anonymously, hence criticism, and hence the temptation by developers to over defend their products.Defend by all means, but not to the point of heated debates I would say.

Absolutely, I completely agree with you. It's understandable that a manufacturer of a product, a product that's responsible for putting bread on the table, should be somewhat peeved, if points are raised that are inaccurate.It's also perfectly reasonable for the said manufacturer to make a respectful attempt to correct those views.But when politely correcting inaccurate statements spirals into a heated debate, it no longer serves their best interests in my view.The tendency is a product of the Internet. The Internet, and more importantly forums like this, make software developers very accessible, accessible by customers anonymously, hence criticism, and hence the temptation by developers to over defend their products.Defend by all means, but not to the point of heated debates I would say.

I don't see any heated debates here. And if Avsim saw it, they would call it.What I do see is a couple of people that reported inaccurate claims, they were addressed on it, they got mad and left and a few others were mad because Ron and I made note that we are not going to sit back with our heads in the sand when these things happen. Right you are about the internet. When we are targeted with the orange title as "commercial" and we are talking to "spankydog13" there is no way to even know if the person legitimately owns the product. But I see no heated debate. Trust me, I can do heated. :(

Like Jim, I don't see heated..I see a very frank discussion on whether misleading or untrue statements should be challenged or unchallenged.In our case, we decided to challenge the veracity of some and included a very concise explanation as to why users should not assume certain things from Devs.

Absolutely, I completely agree with you. It's understandable that a manufacturer of a product, a product that's responsible for putting bread on the table, should be somewhat peeved, if points are raised that are inaccurate.It's also perfectly reasonable for the said manufacturer to make a respectful attempt to correct those views.But when politely correcting inaccurate statements spirals into a heated debate, it no longer serves their best interests in my view.The tendency is a product of the Internet. The Internet, and more importantly forums like this, make software developers very accessible, accessible by customers anonymously, hence criticism, and hence the temptation by developers to over defend their products.Defend by all means, but not to the point of heated debates I would say.

No I am not the in the least surprised that you and most Dev's would be in agreement. I know that many people do not pick the best wording or take the best approach to trying to get a problem solved. Some even have an agenda or axe to grind. Happens all the time. It is a bit different here with this forum and direct access to DEV's. I do think that Dev's need to understand that if your product is good then it will always appear near the top of the list as "must haves." One very different interaction goes on here. Most of the regular users are very much a part of the process. Just like your employee's we don't always understand a problem, and ask questions. That is because you have made yourself available and I think that is a great thing. Yes by all means defend your self but always remember that you are speaking to 4 or 5 Trolls and maybe hundreds or thousands of people who are hoping for you sucess because we end up with better toys!!

I'll just elaborate on my thoughts on the Mustang as whole because I think that last post came out sounding pretty negative: Pros:Amazing modeling, external and VCGreat soundsGood documentationExcellent supportFlies great, I don't know what a Mustang flies like but it sure is fun to fly in the simBest G1000 simulation so farCons:Need a pretty beefy computer to run it well. Before I got my i5-750 I had it shelved because of performance (I was using an E6600)No load managerNo weight & balance page in the G1000No G1000 cheklistsDoesn't seem like there's much to the AHRS simulation... as soon as you turn on the batteries it's aligned and ready to goNo VNAV simulation. This is the biggest con to me.It's overall an excellent add-on and I'm glad I bought it but I guess my desires are too much for this price point... I would've paid twice as much to fix those last issues.

I don't think the real plane has v-nav.

I can't read this blah blah no more...Take a look at the initial post:

For those of you who paid the whopping $54 for the mustang, do you feel its worth the price. I have a rig that was built for FSX and get very high FPS and wondered how much of a drop in performance you have seen. I remembered on FS9 I purchased the Eaglesoft SR-22 for $35 and it was awful on frames. Been spending some time learning the G1000 on the default cessna and find my self with "Head in the cockpit" instead of enjoying the scenery. I dont like flying the default lear jet because of the avionics package and lack of gps and the mustang has the real Garmin 1000. The only Flight1 aircraft I have owned was the ArcherII for FS( and quickly dropped it when I discovered Carenado. So let me hear some likes and dislikes..

This what it all should be about.For me, it is worth 54USD. This is the only VLJ which I use. It has its limitations, but it is a fun to fly. The only way for me in transitioning prom props to jets.

I don't think the real plane has v-nav.

It does, but there the term VNAV could actually refer to two different programming functions in the G1000, one merely for climb/descent planning (an ooh aaah feature that an experienced pilot can figure out in his head quicker than the button presses), the other for a function included within the flightplanning function where the flightplan has altitudes included and the autopilot will track those altitude changes using the FLC function of the autopilot (another oooh aaaah feature that doesn't get used for reasons I listed earlier).

That last statement says it all really. Because it actually goes both ways. We work hard to give you those cool toys at a price you can afford and at a price that hopefully does more than just keep our doors open. The expectations of every user are different, some are reasonable, some are more than that and some are beyond what is capable for the price point. For years many of us developers have tried to "one up" each other and that was good for the customers, but it has gotten to the point that it crosses what should be expected for the entertainment price point. Many aviators that need tools to assist them in training will pay way beyond what a entertainment product will bear in the market. But we are all approaching that point of how much can you do for said /given price. We don't have magic wands, we have to get up and work just like you do and most days are way overtime with no overtime pay. So yeah, I understand the concern about your hard earned money. So there is no "attitude" it's just shooting straight facts which is never very popular around here. And with that in mind, I am confused at how many people want to take developers to the wood shed around here also. Personally I really don't care. I know what I can offer, I know we provide quality and I know that if a customer doesn't like either one, we give them their money back. So I sleep pretty good at night.I rarely post here these days..... and it is getting rarer...

Well said - I think half the time it's people wanting to show off how much they know, how smart they are, that start's driving the "you left out this and this" kind of thread.

Yes, those stupid, stupid customers. What with their opinions, and willingness to pay for more features. I find it amazing that I have said numerous times that I want to pay for those features missing from the Mustang but apparently nobody heard me. Oh well, that's this forum for ya... write an honest opinion and you get dogpiled by devs and users. Some of whom don't even own the product in question. And then go on to misrepresent what I stated very clearly in my original post. I've said everything that needs to be said on the Mustang and this discussion, so I bid every one adieu.

It has nothing to do with not listening to stupid customers. You are simply in a very small minority of people who miss those features, one too small to drive important feature decisions by developers. And that is neither good nor bad - it just is.The problem the Devs. have is that a lot of people would have to want to pay extra for these additional features to make it worth their while to do the extra programming. Not just you. They need a return on investment.The size of the add-on market is small - far less than 10% of all FSX buyers purchase an add-on per Microsoft at the last AVSIM conference in Seattle. Now, how many of those pony up for the complex add-ons at the top of the price scale. A far, far smaller number. And then, how many are disatisfied with a piece of equipment they most likely have never touched in real life, and never will? We are talking a handful - and that handful is a group likely to be involved in aviation already, and have access to certified training tools. There just isn't margin in doing that programming - it would sell too few extra units to justify the cost. And in this business, that cost is both real programming time, plus opportunity cost. Taking programers away from popular products that will sell a lot to add features that only a few are interested in is bad business. Jim said it - he has a very good idea of what his audience wants in terms of price/features/realism and he varies from that calculus at his peril. Ths kind of software development is complex and expensive. He doesn't promise full fidelity to the Garmin instrument. He doesn't mistate the truth in his advertising. So giving him a hard time about it doesn't seem particularly fair to me. I'm not saying don't raise your questions or concerns. How else can Jim and his firm gauge whether or not they made the right decision beyond the sales numbers? But don't be offended if they don't end up doing what you ask. A lot of people would have to want the same thing for it to make sense from a business perspective. ColinPS - I have the add on and I love it. My only complaint is I have trouble finding the click spots for entering flight plans.