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Scott Miller

Price for PMDG NGX Manuals

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Upon seeing the announcement that PMDG is offering manuals, operating guides, etc. in advance of it's release of it's 737 NGX (which I had long since given up ever seeing released) I clicked on the link and nearly had a heart attack! What PMDG is charging JUST for the manuals gives sticker shock a whole new meaning!Anyone who would spend $70 on a Quick Check guide, much less $330 for the complete Chief Pilot's Manual set HAS GOTTA BE COMPLETELY OFF THEIR ROCKER! Given the prices for just the manuals, one is going to have to take out a mortgage on their home or sell their first born to afford the plane itself!Given the state of the economy, what on earth could PMDG possibly be thinking?! I've got to wonder, too, if anything less than a Super Computer will be capable of running the new NGX aircraft if it requires manuals and training aids this expensive to learn to fly...Anyway, just my two cents on the subject, for what it's worth...

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Anyone who would spend $70 on a Quick Check guide, much less $330 for the complete Chief Pilot's Manual set HAS GOTTA BE COMPLETELY OFF THEIR ROCKER! Given the prices for just the manuals, one is going to have to take out a mortgage on their home or sell their first born to afford the plane itself!
I wouldn't say someone would be off their rocker to buy them. For some that are really passionate about that plane they probably dont mind spending the money if they can afford it. Just like any hobby or interest we all have varing levels of interest that compel us to spend various sums of money on it. I play golf a lot and recently bought a Scotty Cameron putter for $250. You could say that I was off my rocker to spend that much on just a putter, but if it works for me and I can afford it then so what. Same could be said for a lot of things when you cant see the value of them for your own personal use.
Given the state of the economy, what on earth could PMDG possibly be thinking?!
You have to remember that we all have different levels of income and spending power. Not everyone has been laid off or lost their homes in the past few years. I am blessed that in the type of work I do I actually made more money in the last two years when the economy went to hell than I ever did when it was in good shape. Does that mean that I will buy the manuals? Not sure yet, but I have considered it since its the one and only plane that I have been waiting for since going to FSX and I imagine that once its out, I will fly it 99% of the time I am using FSX.
I've got to wonder, too, if anything less than a Super Computer will be capable of running the new NGX aircraft if it requires manuals and training aids this expensive to learn to fly...
I wouldn't worry about the performance from what Robert R and Ryan have said over on their forum, unless of course your struggling to run FSX as it stands. They have said that it gets much better FPS than their 747 and JS4100. So if you are able to run either of those two planes comfortably then the NGX should be no problem. Plus they have mentioned numerous times that they have started from scratch with it, new code and everything to make it not only offer the best simulation of the plane but FPS friendly as well.If I were you I would just print the PDF manuals it comes with. That should be enough to get you flying it with no problem, not to mention the fact that no one is forcing you to buy the print manuals they offer if you cant afford them or dont want them.

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Hi,If you don't want to buy them, that's fine, your choiceIf you think there overpriced, that's fine too, your entitled to your opinion.However to insult those who have bought them, or are considering buying them is not, it's plain rude. They are not "off their rocker" as you put it, they are just spending their hard earned money enjoying their hobby.Suggest you maybe delete or edit your post to something more reasonableSteve

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I cannot say I find the printed manuals very tempting at that price - never mind what they will cost after adding shipping to Europe. And for a product that hasn't even been released yet :blink:Other can do with their cash as they like, though. As long as the manuals are included with the NGX in .pdf form I don't see a problem.

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Hopefully the PDfs will be in A5 format so I will just print and folder them like I have with the MD11 manuals.Similar manuals for a lot less.Besides I assume, as the purchaseable manuals are based on real 737 manuals, there could be a lot of info not usable in the sim whereas the PDFs could be more sim specific.

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I personally would never buy these manuals. It's far too expensive for me to even begin seriously thinking about buying it... That said, some people who will want to fly the 737 and fly nothing else may find it a great deal. Also, this doesn't anything about the price of the plane itself. it will for sure not be moer than the manuals. Have you checked ou the pride fifference between the MD-11 manuals and addon plane? And what abou the 747 manuals and addon plane! The MD-11 is $120 for the FS9/FSX combo pack (which actually is still very expensive, a price I don't seem it worthy of costing), the 747 is cheaper than that.

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If the manuals are two expensive for you then simply don't buy them.If PMDG sell the number of copies it anticipated at that price then it will have set the correct market price - if not it's got the price wrong. At the end of the day the market will decide.Incidentally, I've never bought a PMDG aircraft because I find them too expensive and I'm not interested inflying that type of aircraft. But I don't come and rant in these forums about those who do chose to buy them.

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1. The 737 NGX according to PMDG will be priced similar to previous products.2. The 737 NGX according to PMDG has less of an fps impact than the 747, MD11, and JS41. It should run quite well on many systems.3. The cost of the manual is what it is because they are near exact replicas of what real 737 NG pilots receive from the airlines, and Boeing made special accommodations for PMDG in producing these manuals. The depth of content in these manuals is greater than ever before seen in PMDG manuals. 4. PMDG has stated that some of the information in the printed versions will not be included with the PDF versions that come with the aircraft. This is because some of the information in the printed manuals was expensive and difficult to acquire, so PMDG is not going to just throw this information in with a basic purchase of the software.5. It's really easy to make comments like yours when you don't have insight into the costs and time that go into development of a product like this. If you were a part of the staff that produced these manuals and worked on the simulation, I am sure you would have a very different perspective.

If the manuals are two expensive for you then simply don't buy them.If PMDG sell the number of copies it anticipated at that price then it will have set the correct market price - if not it's got the price wrong. At the end of the day the market will decide.Incidentally, I've never bought a PMDG aircraft because I find them too expensive and I'm not interested inflying that type of aircraft. But I don't come and rant in these forums about those who do chose to buy them.
PMDG has been selling these so quickly that the supplier temporarily ran out of stock. Apparently the market supports the pricing.

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I agree! That price is a tad high.

Upon seeing the announcement that PMDG is offering manuals, operating guides, etc. in advance of it's release of it's 737 NGX (which I had long since given up ever seeing released) I clicked on the link and nearly had a heart attack! What PMDG is charging JUST for the manuals gives sticker shock a whole new meaning!Anyone who would spend $70 on a Quick Check guide, much less $330 for the complete Chief Pilot's Manual set HAS GOTTA BE COMPLETELY OFF THEIR ROCKER! Given the prices for just the manuals, one is going to have to take out a mortgage on their home or sell their first born to afford the plane itself!Given the state of the economy, what on earth could PMDG possibly be thinking?! I've got to wonder, too, if anything less than a Super Computer will be capable of running the new NGX aircraft if it requires manuals and training aids this expensive to learn to fly...Anyway, just my two cents on the subject, for what it's worth...

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Aren't the Bill Bulfer 737NG cockpit companion guides a bit cheaper if you want that sort of thing?Personally I'll make do with the usual PDF. Ian

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Isn't this kind of backwards?:( What good are the manuals if yoü don't have the aircraft?

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Guest kdundon

Being one of those who is "off their Rocker", I am enjoying going through my QRH and anticipation of the release of the simulation. If you have a problem with the price so be it but don't come in here and insult me because I bought it. Ken

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It's definitely too rich for my blood. PDFs for me! I'm sure the licensing costs with Boeing are a big part of why they are expensive... I hope, anyway. I just hope they don't see their sales success with the manuals as justification for blowing the price way up to $130 or something on the plane itself. But it's their product and they can do whatever the heck they want.. I just "vote with my wallet."

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Hopefully the PDfs will be in A5 format so I will just print and folder them like I have with the MD11 manuals.Similar manuals for a lot less.Besides I assume, as the purchaseable manuals are based on real 737 manuals, there could be a lot of info not usable in the sim whereas the PDFs could be more sim specific.
As far as I understand, the PDFs will be exactly the same as the printed manuals. Printing them yourself may be a no-go, though - there was some talk about them being locked as part of the licensing agreement with Boeing.

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As far as I understand, the PDFs will be exactly the same as the printed manuals. Printing them yourself may be a no-go, though - there was some talk about them being locked as part of the licensing agreement with Boeing.
That would be a real bummer, and personally would be a deal breaker for me. There is no way I would buy such a complex plane without being able to print my own manual or at least sections of it. Once again I do realize that it would Boeing's doing and not PMDG's, still disappointing though (if it does turn out to be the case.)

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Given the state of the economy, (...)
I just love the sentences that start with these words...

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I agree it's to steep for me as well. To those that want them, and can afford them, that's up to them. Shouldn't though this topic be brought over to the PMDG forums?

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As far as I understand, the PDFs will be exactly the same as the printed manuals. Printing them yourself may be a no-go, though - there was some talk about them being locked as part of the licensing agreement with Boeing.
If I buy a product for my computer I will print the manual if and when required. I won't be selling or giving it to anyone else. (Not just flight sim products)Besides I am not being forced into buying the official printed manuals because I can't print sections of the PDF.Can't see how boeing can be bothered. There are plenty of file sharing sites with offical boeing manuals for various airlines being hosted. Boeing don't appear to be doing anything to get them removed.

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4. PMDG has stated that some of the information in the printed versions will not be included with the PDF versions that come with the aircraft. This is because some of the information in the printed manuals was expensive and difficult to acquire, so PMDG is not going to just throw this information in with a basic purchase of the software.
Well, one would hope they would include with the purchase of the aircraft all the relevant documentation needed to include FMC programming, what all the buttons, toggles, switches do and how you use them and aircraft operating weights, etc... I have seen this type of stuff included with every payware release I have bought for FS. If PMDG does not include anything but a few pages which tell you how to install it etc... and then says you must buy the manuals if you want to learn how to fly the plane properly than that's wrong big time.

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Having had dealings with the printer business, (Yellow Pages) I can see how much it can cost for a professional manual with a limited run such as this. Add to that licensing fees they are probably paying Boeing, and of course their profit margin, and the cost can get quite high.

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If I buy a product for my computer I will print the manual if and when required. I won't be selling or giving it to anyone else. (Not just flight sim products)
What I meant was, chances are the PDFs will be protected in such a way that you cannot print them.

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Having had dealings with the printer business, (Yellow Pages) I can see how much it can cost for a professional manual with a limited run such as this. Add to that licensing fees they are probably paying Boeing, and of course their profit margin, and the cost can get quite high.
Exactly. I once looked at doing printed manuals for FS2Crew and the cost was just mind-numbing.I remember in the old days a lot of the hard-core sims came with pretty big printed manuals... sure maybe it's do-able if you're dealing in huge, huge volume, but for the little FS indie developers, it's a very tough row to hoe.

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4. PMDG has stated that some of the information in the printed versions will not be included with the PDF versions that come with the aircraft. This is because some of the information in the printed manuals was expensive and difficult to acquire, so PMDG is not going to just throw this information in with a basic purchase of the software.
With the possible exception of the QRH, that is not correct. This is what they said: I can confirm for anyone concerned, that the Flight Crew Operating Manuals Vol 1 & Vol 2, plus the Flight Crew Training Manual will be included with the product in PDF format. We are still working out details on the QRH availability. I think it is likely that the only change you all will see is that we do not make these documents available as a free download from our website. This is being dictated by the people who own the manuals- and as such we shall comply- even if it isn't our first choice. (http://forum.avsim.net/topic/320127-flight-manuals-released-05dec10/page__view__findpost__p__1887779)So you won't be able to download the manuals before purchase, but they will come with the product.

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Guest Boeing Skunk Works

The OP doesn't have a clue as to how much money can be spent on this hobby.$330 for a set of manuals? I spend more than that on a single radio head. And I have almost twice that in manuals and books.

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To contextualize the perceived value/ expense of the manuals one might look to the real world, ordering manuals is something designers of Aircraft Addons do regularly and they can be expensive, as one of the pre eminent development houses PMDG have managed to make this aspect of simming as real as it gets.

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