Hi,I can certainly understand why AVSIM added the unofficial forum, but if you are correct, I cannot see any reason why LM would get involved if their intent is to shut us out of P3D.

Hi,I can certainly understand why AVSIM added the unofficial forum, but if you are correct, I cannot see any reason why LM would get involved if their intent is to shut us out of P3D.

I agree.Leen3131cs is 100% correct in the fact that home users aren't the target for P3D: it is for professionals. But at the same time I can't see what purpose it serves to shut home users out of the sim.P3D is no different from many other professional software: you can buy them to your home as well, but you rarely do because of the price tag or the fact that you don't need it.

So do I. And we shouldn't forget we are just a tiny and shrinking niche of perhaps +/-50000 potential customers. Nothing to do with games that sell per millions.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Jean-Paul Mes

Hi,I can certainly understand why AVSIM added the unofficial forum, but if you are correct, I cannot see any reason why LM would get involved if their intent is to shut us out of P3D.

Because as Mr de Jager said, they wanted to get in touch with the professionals who inhabit the Avsim community.I don't necessarily expect LM to build a wall to keep non-professional users out, but there is no reason for them to ever take the needs or wishes of non-professionals into account.Consider P3D a piece of professional software that you enjoy playing around with and you'll be fine.Expect LM to be the saviour of the flight sim genre and listen to the desires of home simmers and you're setting yourself up for disappointment.1 million people paying $10 a month is equivalent to about 2-3 JSF planes sold in terms of turnover. Home users of P3D are not even a blip on LM's radar.

Because as Mr de Jager said, they wanted to get in touch with the professionals who inhabit the Avsim community.

Correct and very understandable.

I don't necessarily expect LM to build a wall to keep non-professional users out, but there is no reason for them to ever take the needs or wishes of non-professionals into account.

They have no need to listen home users, but professionals. But isn't that just a good thing that serves ethusiasts well? Most of us expect certain degree of professionalism from hard core simulator software.

Consider P3D a piece of professional software that you enjoy playing around with and you'll be fine.Expect LM to be the saviour of the flight sim genre and listen to the desires of home simmers and you're setting yourself up for disappointment.1 million people paying $10 a month is equivalent to about 2-3 JSF planes sold in terms of turnover. Home users of P3D are not even a blip on LM's radar.

See above: our expectations are along the same line with many professionals. Good simulator is a good simulator and it doesn't matter if it is targeted to professionals or home users. And yes, LM is never going to make money from selling 10 bucks developer licences. I think business lies in selling complete training systems with cockpits and support deals. Prepar3D is just a software engine of the complete system.At least that's how i see it.

Just as long as we stay off LM forums and not post "I installed the new Battlefield drivers now I CTD, please help..." I don't see why they would care at all.

Hi,My needs are simple, as long as LM supplies me with a flightsim platform that third party developers can continue to expand upon I'll be one happy camper. Since LM is continuing to expand Prepar3D and there is an SDK, I already have everything I need. The only thing left is to get third party developers on board and that's already starting to happen.

I don't necessarily expect LM to build a wall to keep non-professional users out, but there is no reason for them to ever take the needs or wishes of non-professionals into account.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

I cannot see any reason why LM would get involved if their intent is to shut us out of P3D.

Nor can I. John Nicol (LM) has been very friendly to hardcore simmers. They are welcoming simmers to come and try it out.Senseless to think that they wouldn't want the hardcore FS industry joining the P3D boat.They also are great with requests in the forum. The devs are active and helpful. I *highly* doubt that they would ever close off there community to simmers.note: Even though P3D might seem like a viable solution, I actually don't believe that P3D is our next sim. I think that our real long term solution is XPlane10. PMDG is now considering using XPlane10 for their future sim of choice. Although XPlane is primitive, it in fact does a have a potential future welcoming *all* on this forum. -- They directly appeal to hardcore users. They actually appeal to users of this forum unlike the boys up in Redmond.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by benorg

They have something that can be sold for the cost of a DVD and package material / cover art. Sell 50,000 units at $250.00 = $12,500,000. cost for DVD / package / art $5.00 = $250,000. Profit form selling a mere 50,000 units $12,250,000. For selling something they all ready have. A bug free, DX-11, state of the art flight sim focused on the serious simmer, with professional support that runs like the dickens, and looks visually stunning on your computer. Why would they turn away free money?

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by drumsonly2002

Correct and very understandable.They have no need to listen home users, but professionals. But isn't that just a good thing that serves ethusiasts well? Most of us expect certain degree of professionalism from hard core simulator software.See above: our expectations are along the same line with many professionals. Good simulator is a good simulator and it doesn't matter if it is targeted to professionals or home users. And yes, LM is never going to make money from selling 10 bucks developer licences. I think business lies in selling complete training systems with cockpits and support deals. Prepar3D is just a software engine of the complete system.At least that's how i see it.

Until LM decides to add a new feature for their professional customers that breaks backward compatibility with the NGX, or with GoFlight modules.I'm not saying P3D has nothing to offer for home simmers. Just realise that there are no guarantees. P3D will be developed in line with the needs and wishes of the professional customers. As long as the needs of home simmers align with that LM won't mind us coming along for the ride, but when they decide on upgrades, how that will affect the home simmers will not enter into the business case.I'm guess what I'm saying is, is that calling LM the saviour of the flight sim genre and P3D the future of home simming is a bit overblown.There's no motivation for LM to keep us out, but there's no motivation for them to keep us on board either.

Time will tell obviously.When thousands of consumer-simmers are floading the Prepar3d forums, things will change in no time.I think.I have already seen posts about self-made Thunderbirds-like planes , blue fantasy islands and pink sharks in the surrounding water, on the Prepar3d forum.Do you really think thats LM`s goal for image-building in the future?Leen

Hi,A simple solution would be a private P3D forum hosted by LM for the multimillion dollar corporations and an unofficial P3D forum here at AVSIM for the monthly subscribers or any other reduced enthusiast type payment plan/offer they may have in mind. AVSIM contains a great group of diverse individuals that could easily take on the job of support for the unofficial P3D forum.Heck, we already do it for FSX, FS2004, PSS, CS and all the others, what's one more online forum?

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

Yes, time wll tell. Untill told otherwise by LM, we are welcome to use P3D. The rest is speculation. So let's just enjoy the ride.

Until LM decides to add a new feature for their professional customers that breaks backward compatibility with the NGX, or with GoFlight modules.I'm not saying P3D has nothing to offer for home simmers. Just realise that there are no guarantees. P3D will be developed in line with the needs and wishes of the professional customers. As long as the needs of home simmers align with that LM won't mind us coming along for the ride, but when they decide on upgrades, how that will affect the home simmers will not enter into the business case.I'm guess what I'm saying is, is that calling LM the saviour of the flight sim genre and P3D the future of home simming is a bit overblown.There's no motivation for LM to keep us out, but there's no motivation for them to keep us on board either.

Well, with the new DX11 impending update, that will likely kill off *all* addons including scenery, aircraft and weather textures etc.

Yes, time wll tell. Untill told otherwise by LM, we are welcome to use P3D. The rest is speculation. So let's just enjoy the ride.

+1Exactly what I have been trying to say.

@ TheGrunt. Then I have to clarify it for you.Dedicated simmers - purists = enthusiasts.But you should understand it at first because I mentioned PC PILOT. Anyway