Unfortunately, the issue is hopelessly entangled with politics.

I refer you back to the original poster's question:

As I still don't understand entirely how your healthcare system works.

 

Say for example, you cannot afford healthcare insurance. You have a serious RTA (your fault) that requires paramedics and an air ambulance. You end up in intensive care for a couple of weeks. Who pays for that little lot?

 

Note that the question may be answered and discussed without politics or religion being brought into the discussion.

 

Doug, the ban on bringing either politics or religion into any forum at AVSIM is non-negotiable.

Blimey! Which United Kingdom are you living in? Moaning about the NHS is a national pastime!

 

Maybe what I should have said is "given that In the UK merely breathing a word of criticism of the NHS - or more particularly the doctors & nurses that work in it - could well get A POLITICIAN lynched"

 

I have to say my recent experiences of the NHS have been poor. However, my desire would be for it to be made better and not scrapped - but therein lies the problem; how do you improve something that's above criticism by those responsible for it?

 

It's a bit like "hard working families" and "our brave Armed Forces" - every politician says it from whatever party but none of them really gives a **** about them!

Folks, I'd like to leave this thread open and not lock it. But I need help from all of you for that - keep it civil and please, please, please lets stay away from politics.

 

Others who've said here that the issue can be discussed without going into religion or politics are right, please lets keep it that way.

 

If it does go into religion and politics (and flaming, arguments etc....) - we will lock it.

I pay $313.00/month and almost NEVER go to the doctor. When I do go to the doctor I pay $40.00 and for anything serious I have a deductible of $6,000/yr. It's almost better to have no money in this country! For people who are completely broke, like my brother, they get world class healthcare and don't even get a bill for it. My brother has not a penny and lots of health problems and medications...he pays NOTHING! If he had money he would have to pay!

 

Wall Street investors pay smaller % of taxes on income than manual laborers. In the US you can make $20,000,000/yr, not even earn it (capital gains), and pay income taxes at 12%

Good point, so what happens if you just can't pay, surely the hospitals must be losing money hand over fist... No one can pay money like that over the course of a life time in addition to everything else in their lives... :mellow: :huh:

 

For what they charge?! Losing money?! The US healthcare system is a sick joke, and they're much the same as these second rate credit card companies.

 

Side note: I went for my 1st class medical the other day at my local physician's office. Typically I'm charged $90 for the 1st class, but I had a plan. I asked rather or not my exam could be ran through my insurance as a physical, and it was... Skip forward 7 days when I received my statement from Aetna, and I was amazed at what the doctor's office charged them (my insurance provider). Five. Hundred. Dollars... $500... I was responsible for $10, my insurance company got duped.

I'd love to read more from you guys, stating how it is from your personal perspective and viewpoint. Pretty interesting thread in that regard.

 

On the costs an individual causes for his health care needs, the last year of one's life pretty much beats all the years before that final time span. Cold statistics that is. :(

So you will effectively be legally in debt to the healthcare company to the tune of $500,000?

 

This has caused more divorces and personal bankruptcy then probably a lot of other things here in the US. Honestly, healthcare is talked about more before people get married now. Not how much money you make...but what type of health insurance you have.

Kevin, I don't think anyone is saying that healthcare is entirely free. There is a cost in higher taxes that I think those with state-funded healthcare have already identified (I have), and in Canada, we do pay monthly premiums depending on ability to pay and size of family (see here for premiums in BC). These premiums, by the way, vary from province to province--they may be more, they may be less, depending on the province or territory in which a Canadian lives.

 

Concerning the honest assessment of the costs to society ... is not the collective caring of individuals in need, regardless of their ability to pay, worth the cost to society? Is not the freedom from worry about paying huge medical bills, even going into debt, worth the cost to society?

 

Well, maybe the people on this board and Canadians are intelligent enough to understand that it is not for free. However, the messages from the government supporting the reforms being instituted in the US emphasise that the reforms are supposed to reduce government deficits, provide healthcare for all, not raise taxes, and not adversely affect the economy contradict that bit of common sense. The reforms in the US do nothing to address the cost of healthcare, which is the primary problem with healthcare. Their approach was to try and force everybody into the insurance system. So what if they manage to force everybody into the insurance system? Does that mean that the healthcare/insurance complex is not going to continue consuming a bigger and bigger portion of GDP?

 

The core of the problem in US healthcare is our lawsuit centric society. At best, healthcare providers approach their work from the standpoint of ensuring that the provider's hind quarter is completely covered from lawsuit. With that approach brings increasing costs from, the least of which is malpractice insurance, but mainly from the exponential rise in costs from increased and unnecessary visits, tests, procedures, etc. as doctors focus on ensuring for themselves that there is no chance of mistake instead of providing their service as intelligently and efficiently as possible. At worst, healthcare providers order their patients to undergo services primarily for the purposes of billings. None of these issues are addressed by the reforms, and they are at the core of why healthcare costs consume more and more of our economic potential. All that they are doing, is forcing everyone to contribute to the feeding of an extremely inefficient machine.

 

Concerning the worth of collective caring for the individual, our government needs to actually acknowledge that there is a cost for that to society. They have not done so. They continue to insist that the ACA is a deficit reducing measure, that this is not going to hurt the economy, etc. etc. Yes, the collective care for the individual is worth a cost to society. The question is what is the cost? Is it worth any cost? Is it worth 2% of the GDP? Is it worth a 20% increase in taxes? Honestly acknowledge the cost so that the people can decide, instead of insisting that there is no cost to this and then forcing through new laws by way of obscure congressional procedure.

I pay $313.00/month and almost NEVER go to the doctor. When I do go to the doctor I pay $40.00 and for anything serious I have a deductible of $6,000/yr. It's almost better to have no money in this country! For people who are completely broke, like my brother, they get world class healthcare and don't even get a bill for it. My brother has not a penny and lots of health problems and medications...he pays NOTHING! If he had money he would have to pay!

 

 

Yes it does seem like that.

 

In the U.S, no insurance does not mean no health care, hospitals are required to treat any emergency regardless of ability to pay.

 

Hospitals have to make up for it by charging higher fees to cover up for the cost of those that are not able to pay. So in effect people who pay (either themselves or via insurance companies) will be paying a higher cost.

 

to cover those not able to pay.

 

So its not necessarily as scary as some of the earlier posters made it sound. Everyone in the U.S has medical care, its just the matter of who is paying for it.

 

The ones really at risk I think are those who have 'some' money and could lose it all if their acquire very high medical bills their insurance does not cover. A person could easily go through their life savings and lose their home to pay these medical costs.

 

Wall Street investors pay smaller % of taxes on income than manual laborers. In the US you can make $20,000,000/yr, not even earn it (capital gains), and pay income taxes at 12%

 

You can also lose that $20,000,000 in the same investment, and its not just the rich wall street investors who get that tax rate. working class folks who risk a few thousand of their hard earned money in the market also get lower tax rate on their investment income.

I pay $313.00/month and almost NEVER go to the doctor. When I do go to the doctor I pay $40.00 and for anything serious I have a deductible of $6,000/yr. It's almost better to have no money in this country! For people who are completely broke, like my brother, they get world class healthcare and don't even get a bill for it. My brother has not a penny and lots of health problems and medications...he pays NOTHING! If he had money he would have to pay!

 

Wall Street investors pay smaller % of taxes on income than manual laborers. In the US you can make $20,000,000/yr, not even earn it (capital gains), and pay income taxes at 12%

 

Same here brother, same here. I think I went there once last year because of an ear ache...they prescribed me the same stuff I can get over the counter...and sent me on my way. AFTER I paid them because my deductible didn't kick in for such low cost....It is a shame, as I know I will continue to pay pay pay, and never use ( I pray ). I only really have it because of my children. That is the only reason.

 

Sad fact is, you can have insurance here, pay for it for years, and when you need something, or a special prescription you will get denied for it because the same company you pay to insure you, does, but not for a certain this or that. It is so sad it is funny. Better to laugh over here than cry.

 

Also, about income tax????? LOL....try 32%, and I am at the lower to middle figure there.

These Hospitals and HMOs are non-profit! "I know right"? My friend works for St. Mary's Hospital here in SF. He says they made a profit of $100,000,000 last year!

 

HMO Kaiser Hospital in non profit too right? They are building 2 (two)!!! new facilities in the E. Bay. These are monolithic compunds (skyscrapers?) basically and must costs hundreds of millions of dollars. Where are they getting the money? Is that part of the 3 trillion we spend per year on health care?

 

If you add the 3 trillion/yr on healthcare, and 3 trillion/yr spent on government that 's nearly 50% of GDP! Wow! Europe here we come!

All this BS about socialized med is just that, BS. Anyone who thinks these systems work for all are just plain nuts. I live in the U.S. and I am in a way helping pay for these so called health care plans by way of my own taxes.

 

P.S. I paid for health insurance for 30 years before I nn it. And it paid all of my 80,000 USD bill.

Caution

 

We do not want to shut this thread down, so stay on topic and keep insults, slander and direct political debate out of it as best you can.

 

Be careful lest you find yourself banned from the topic for going too far.

 

Kind regards,

Hi all

I live in Canada since 1966 and my wife has had three new knee replacements all very successful and we pay nothing except taxes and our service maybe a little slow arriving sometimes but you will get it quicker or later depending on the seriousness involved. I also have been hospitalized four times, all lengthy stays but no bills to pay after release I am very grateful to say. Oh and I am amazed how many Americans are now immigrating to Canada just because they are afraid of the medical needs as they get older. I have always been happy to pay taxes and even happier to be able to do that. And one more thing to add My wife and I pay $100.00 each per year towards all of our medications and there are many of them. Were it not for our health system many of us would not see age 40 never mind 65. I have only been across the border 3 times since I came to Canada and I will never visit again that's for sure. Too many people carrying weapons there for me.......John

Sometimes I wonder why I auto-subscribe to threads... :mellow: :wacko: :rolleyes: