We still need some time to see more, but i'm 200% positive that is not a placebo. 

 

And thank you Umberto for letting us know! It's amazing how Jim spoted that. I was convinced i did that by mistake

So now to finish off, do we need this Uiautomationcoredll file or not? and which version are we all recommending we use 6.0.5840.16386 or 6.0.6001.18000.

  

That would be the most interesting question. According to some posts here on Avsim:

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/326554-fsx-crashes-when-using-menus/

 

6.0.6001.18000, the one that was included in our installers (not that I'm saying it was right to install it, it *was* a mistake, but still...), seems to be the one that fixes most crashes:

 

version 6.0.6001.18000 (this is the one that has not ever failed on my rig)OR version 6.0.5840.16386 (I used this for a few months but did have a couple of hangs.)

I am so stunned by this...your UIAutomationCore.dll version (version 6.0.6001.18000) was THE ANSWER to all my issues!!! I had of course the freeze-up in animation, dropping to desktop with some Menu calls, and I did have a version of UIAutomationCore.dll other than yours in my root FSX folder.

...

The version that I had that was giving me CTD's and freeze-up was: 6.0.5840.16386Thanks again Paul for posting this. It should be a UIAutomationCore.dll 'Sticky'.!!!

This site too:

 

http://flightsimeindhoven.nl/?p=7874

 

Is saying the 6.0.6001.18000 is the ONLY one that fixes all crashes so, at least, according to several different sources, perhaps it wasn't so damaging to have this in the FSDT installers. Not that this change a thing regarding the fact it shouldn't have been there in the first place, but at least it's not known for being a "bad" version.

 

But as I've said, although this is the version I had in my FSX root, I still get crashes from it, occasionally. Not something that would make FSX unusable, it just happens randomly, and only if I keep going in the FSX menus many times in a session.

 

I don't think it should make any difference while flying normally or have any effect on fps, because that library is supposed to allow applications to manipulate menus remotely without having to hook the host process so, it's really a UI thing, I don't think it's being called unless you open a menu.

To me it certainly seems like 6.0.5840.16386 makes my FSX way more stable than 6.0.6001.18000 ever did. I guess it might depend from particular system configuration. 

 

At least right now it seems like some weird hangs and CTD's related to changing views when around major addon airports with complex aircraft models are gone with 6.0.5840.16386, also I'm not getting any crashes no matter how much I spam the menu though also 18000 fixed that one. 

Hi Umberto,

 

 

 

I don't think it should make any difference while flying normally or have any effect on fps, because that library is supposed to allow applications to manipulate menus remotely without having to hook the host process so, it's really a UI thing, I don't think it's being called unless you open a menu.

 

So if I understand you correctly, your saying that the Uiautomationcore file doesn't actually affect the running of fsx in flight, it only comes into use when you select any menu options, ie, views, addon menus, like you use in your sceneries and GSX, map view etc, and it's the selecting the menu which actually causes fsx to crash not the sim running your flight.

 

Interesting, I might re-try that new version again and see if any of my crashes were happening due to menu selections, as I never thought to link the two before.

 

Thanks.

Interesting, It could mean that actually there is no "wrong" version.

 

For now, my conclusion is that both versions will fix menu crashes, but everyone should check which version works better on his system. Especially if there is a hanging, freezing and sluggish FSX menu.

6.0.6001.18000 gives me a lot of problems, and with 6.0.5840.16386 i didn't have a single crash in more then a year.

It would be nice to find the reasons behind compatibility issues

If I recall. P3D had an explanation of why this menu selecting and uiautomtioncore error occured. Had something to do with the way it called up menus and effected MENU selections only in Vista and Win7 and has no effect on any other CTD's.

yes, but i was referring to compatibility issues with 2 different versions. For some people only 6.0.5840.16386 seems to work without issues, and for others 6.0.6001.18000 only...  

 

I'd like to find some "rules" for this

I originally started with 6.0.5840.16386 with what I would consider to be the normal number of FSX oddities! At a certain point in time it was changed to 6.0.6001.18000 but I cannot honestly say that FSX worked or behaved any differently. It still had, what I would consider to be the normal number of behavioural issues.

 

Everything that everyone has written, including Jim himself, who first said that FSX was running smoother yet later said maybe it wasn't, is all subjective and here-say.

 

I have been in the middle of 'tuning' FSX and swapped to 6.0.5840.16386 in the middle of it all (which was, I admit silly) and have had more than what I would consider to be the normal FSX eccentricities. Now is that due to 6.0.5840.16386 or me? Personally, I blame me.

 

To find the difference between the two ddl's one needs to be the developer, or, find a way of repeating the fault, and publishing exactly how the experiment can be repeated by independent parties to prove the difference between one and the other. Saying its smoother and doesn't crash after only a day or so, proves absolutely nothing. I've used both for a number of months unknowingly, without incident, or knowing that they have been changed.

 

So which one to use? Eenie, meenie, miney, mo...

 

 

When I took the 18000 version out of my fsx folder and replaced it with 16386, it was almost like night and day as far as performance.  But I'm pretty sure the correct version of the Uiautomationcore.dll is all like a placebo as I really don't think the dll does much to fix fsx crashes or make fsx run smoother

 

I was thinking something -  this is probably becouse 18000 caused some problems on you system, maybe stutters and slightly worse performance. Then, when you replaced it with 16386, everything reverted to normal performance, just like before, without uiautomationcore.dll in FSX folder. I don't think 16386 would improve FSX performance in general, but i'm sure that 18000 makes it worse on my system. That should be a explanation.

 

So, no miraculously improved performance, but no harm with version that is appropriate for your system. Just a theory, off course

 

Maybe i'll make a video this days, becouse on my system differences are clear, and i can replicate menu crashes without uiautomationcore.dll easily. It could be useful to see the "symptoms"

I tried to do some experiments, and ran FSX through a debugger, asking to stop each time the uiautomationcore.dll is accessed, using the 6.0.6001.18000 only.

 

First, it's definitely confirmed the .dll is accessed ONLY when operating FSX menus, none of its functions ever get called when flying.

 

But what's interesting, is that not ALL FSX menus calls the .DLL, some of them do not (the "Go To airport" menu doesn't seem to access it, but the online Help does), and found some differences regarding 3rd party modules too.

 

When an FSX menu triggers an access to the .dll, it usually does it twice (I'm only tracing the entry point, not all actual functions) on opening the menu, and twice on closing it.

 

This is consistent with several 3rd party modules I've tried: Pmdgoptions.dll from PMDG, Vimacore.dll from Aerosoft, and our own bglmanx.dll (Addon Manager) and Couatl menus. They all access the .dll entry point twice when opening, and twice when closing the menu.

 

Found only two exceptions:the LHBP_objectPlacer.dll from LH Simulations, which doesn't access the .DLL AT ALL, and FSUIPC, which accesses the .DLL many times when opening, many times when closing, and even when switching from its main tab to the "log" tab.

 

Fact that the module from LH never access the .DLL, might be explained with the fact the module doesn't enter into the FSX standard "dialog mode", which is the black screen that is supposed to be used when you open your own dialog, but I don't understand why FSUIPC cause so many access to it.

 

I don't think is a voluntary access: it's likely FSX that access that .dll on his own, perhaps depending on what kind of UI elements are being requested by a module.

 

However, after playing a bit with it in the debugger, which basically meant opening all possible menus one by one, FSX eventually crashed, confusing the debugger session, so I had to stop.

Just want to report that on my Windows 7/64 system 16386, the one Firehawk recommends, improves frameworks and reduces stutters at several airports, including UK2000 extreme  EGLL. My initial experience is a generally smoother experience, even with my scenery sliders a little more to the right.  For EGLL, I used the same initial situation as I had before I changed from 18000 and the difference is quite noticeable.  I used the PMDG 77L.  

 

I never experienced lots of CTDs or menu issues with the 18000 version, and I don't now.  I have no idea where the "wrong" 18000 version came from.

 

So it seems that the best thing is to try both versions (and none) and see which setup works better for you.  AFAIK, putting in a more "harmful" version will only have an effect as long as it is in the FSX folder.  If it is deleted, FSX will go back to the way it was before on the next startup.

 

Also, it is a good idea, if renaming the file as a way to remove it, to make sure it no longer ends in ".dll" as FSX may pick up the file even if the main file name is different.  I know this happens with trafficxxx.bgl files even if they no longer start with "traffic...". 

 

Mike

 

 

However, after playing a bit with it in the debugger, which basically meant opening all possible menus one by one, FSX eventually crashed, confusing the debugger session, so I had to stop.

Are you going to do the test with the other version Umberto ? I would imagine it would be no different, but you never know.

A lot of individuals have placed the Uiautomationcore.dll into their main fsx folder (Vista Version) to avoid FSX Menu crashes.  I just found out that some fsx software addon is installing the wrong version of the Uiautomationcore.dll into the main fsx folder along with their product.  I discovered the wrong version as I once did not believe in placing the Uiautomationcore.dll into the fsx directory as I thought it causes other anomalies.  It supposedly only fixed FSX Menu crashes/freezes but others have stated it fixes all crashes.  I have kept this dll out of my main fsx directory as I didn't believe in this fix but this weekend I had a ntdll crash and ran the AppCrashView program and discovered that the Uiautomationcore.dll was in my main FSX directory!!!  Now who put it there!!!  (not saying but I saw in the PMDG 777 Intro guide that they recommend this dll in all installations and provide a link to the WRONG version).  The version I found was 6.0.6001.18000 and that's the wrong version.  The correct version is 6.0.5840.16386.  If you do not remove the dll or use the wrong version, you will get a freeze, an apphang, or ctd. The correct version is located in the AVSIM Software and Hardware Guide - http://forum.avsim.n...-software-guide. Click on the latest version of the guide. Goto Page 17.  Once you download the version you will have to rename it to Uiautomationcore.dll and then drop it in your Main FSX folder. 

 

You can check to see what version is installed by right clicking on the dll and then selecting Properties.  Then look at the Details tab.  If you have to 6.0.6001.18000 version you need to remove it immediately.

 

I'm still not positive that this dll (the correct version) will fix all of your crashes, problems with the PMDG 777, 737NGX, the FSDT Addon Manager, etc., etc., but it might.  I have tested the correct version and no longer get an ntdll crash.  And, according to Zeljko (B247NG), it eliminated freezing, stutters, and CTD's and the FSX Menu was more responsive and there were fewer stutters in the PMDG 777 and everything was smoother while running FSX.  In my testing, I definitely saw most of my stutters go away and things seemed much smoother during flight.

 

In case anyone is unaware, the uiautomationcore fix is only for Windows 7, 64 bit users.  If you have Windows 8 installed, it is not compatible and you will see problems if it is installed.

 

I think this is a fix for a lot of our problems....

 

Best regards,

Jim

Hi Jim. I have WIN7 64 bit and never did have any Uiautomationcore.dll in my FSX folder and I never had any problems. I put the Vista version in my FSX folder and still have no problems. I have run fsx.exe through both the 32 bit and 64 bit Dependency Walker and cannot find any dependency on the file. Why is this? Regards, Bob.

 

 

However, after playing a bit with it in the debugger, which basically meant opening all possible menus one by one, FSX eventually crashed, confusing the debugger session, so I had to stop.

 

Yikes!  FSX even brought down the debugger!!!  :lol:

 

Your post provides some very valuable information as to what this module does (the who, what, when, where, and how).  The 16386 version appears to have been published with the original Vista OS and the 18000 was published with Vista SP1.  I believe FSX was developed with the original Vista OS and long before SP1 arrived.  Don't think there's much difference between the versions though.  Maybe the 18000 fixed some bugs found in the original Vista version.  In any case I really appreciate the information you have gleened from the debugger.

 

Best regards,

Jim

 

 

I have run fsx.exe through both the 32 bit and 64 bit Dependency Walker and cannot find any dependency on the file. Why is this?

 

Hopefully you have had a chance to read Umberto's explanation at Post 100 above.  I do know that it is part of the Microsoft.net Framework package which developers use to make sure their applications run properly as they intended including memory management.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Hi Jim. OK. Thanks.

 

I have a friend with FSX and WIN8 64 bit. Is this fix required ? Regards, Bob.