Game or not, it all depends what you are doing with it. I just passed my RL IFR rating and FSX was part of the tools I used to get it. Even visualisation of your upcoming flight is considered a valid exercice. You cannot log reading textbook, discussing with your instructors, vizualizing your flight or Fsx practices but they all contribute to your success.

 

So how people call this piece of software is all personal opinion .....

Who cares what the Oxford dictionary says, it all comes down to whatever you want it to be, after all that's all that matters.

Lets move on!

 

 

Increase your proficiency in what - playing games?

 

No, in flying the real aircraft. I don't believe what LM is advertising on their homepage is some kind of hoax (http://www.prepar3d.com/case-studies/canadian-air-cadets-get-prepar3d/). It's not the only tool they use, but it is a training and learning tool.

I seem to think that some people around here think they will get sued or arrested or go to hell if they use P3D for entertainment purposes.

These are the types of discussions we get when LM waits to long between progress updates.

 

 

These are the types of discussions we get when LM waits to long between progress updates

 

+1

Going by definition, FSX is not a game. A game implies a goal, competition a sporting event, none of that applies to FSX. or any other flight simulator, except maybe a air race sim, or combat sim. So the analogy is not accurate. FSX, P3D, X-Plane when used to simulate real world procedures and conditions, using complex aircraft, is a simulator. How well each one is able to accomplish that is debatable and up to the user to decide. If you use them just to goof around, ie fly unrealistic default level aircraft, not worry if you crash etc,  then the better analogy would be it's a toy. It all depends on how you use it.

 

Honestly, unless it is certified by an authority such as the FAA or whoever your local regulator is, it is still a game. I think that many who refuse to accept that are ones who want to go tell their friends "Yes, I can fly a (..insert aircraft here)...".

 

Sorry guys, unless you can legally log flight time, while being a very useful tool, it remains a game. Keep it in perspective.

 

 

Good Point and I think if you have a look around the Net you will discover that P3D and Flight 1 Tech are now certified to log flight time. By the Way I am 66 years old and served over 21 years in the USAF and I assure you that I know the difference in a game and a simulator. Also please take me at my word...I don't use my use of a home flight sim to convience my friends that I can fly an (insert aircraft here) LOL!!

In British Columbia, you can be required to take a Driver's Licence test on a computer simulator-  or game if you prefer.

Depending on results you can lose your licence.

If one was to protest that this "simulator" is NOT a simulator but just a game, I suspect you would lose the argument. But you might win if you said "it is a bad simulator."

 

By definition- a simulator is something intended to simulate a real thing.

Whether it does that realistically or accurately is a whole 'nother topic. Even a 20 million dollar simulator has limitations- it can't make you feel G Forces in the seat of your pants!

To paraphrase Alice (in Wonderland) "a simulator is whatever I say it is!"

january

For a bit of perspective, I saw in the Popular Mech magazine the story of a guy who in the past year with no racing experience other than his simulator in the bedroom, won the chance to drive a F3 car in a real life race and finished up in 3rd place. Agreed, this is not the norm but, it does point out that we had better be careful using these games or Sims as we run the risk of actually learning things even if we make every effort to smile and be entertained while using P3D so we can continue to argue our point that it is just a game and nothing more.

 

The truth is, one mans game can be another man's life's work. Case in point: Hack your friends website so you and he can laugh about it and that is a game. Use the same technique and hack a secure military site and see how well your claim of it being a game holds up. I don't care how much entertainment you may have received, you butt is going to jail and it will not be for entertainment either. So: it's a fun argument and it could go on for ever because there are many correct answers.

I really have a hard time understanding why people are hung up over P3D usage ... it's so irrelevant it boggles my mind that it's discussed so much over and over and over.

 

I'm guessing it's discussed so much because of PMDG's comments?  That's just PMDGs opinion, and it's most likely nothing to do with usage and more to do with moving to XP10 or some other platform, or not moving at all -- in other words it's being used as marketing tool.

 

I've reviewed the agreement and even paid a lawyer to review it (because I was thinking about selling 3rd party content for it, and still am), whatever PMDG's interpretation is, it's not based on any legal recourse ... because there is done.  Again, I think people need to look at what PMDG do and whether or not P3D aligns with their business strategy.

 

1.  P3D is FSX SP2 source code and content (ask Phil Taylor, minor changes to make it ESP) - so whatever FSX meant to you, then P3D will mean the same (and with any luck better when V2 is here)

 

2.  Game or simulator is irrelevant - it's whatever you want it to be.  I do see a few real pilots come here, belittle a product and/or it's users (FSX, P3D, XP10, etc.) for no other reason than their own insecurity.  I don't talk down to people that use iRacing as being clueless because I race real world -- I'm just not that insecure.  iRacing is a tool that one can practice situation awareness, hand/eye coordination, heal/toe shifting, or just have fun with -- and guess what, some of the same skills are things you need with Flying.  I recall some person (a real commercial pilot) coming in here and telling us how lame PMDG's product was and how unrealistic it is, etc. etc. ... then later back pedal out with apologies and hopefully will never return until he's secure about his own career path.

 

Rob

 

 

That's just PMDGs opinion, and it's most likely nothing to do with usage and more to do with moving to XP10 or some other platform, or not moving at all -- in other words it's being used as marketing tool.

 

Or, as some have speculated, PMDG might be caught in a conflict between Boeing and Lockheed Martin.  If so, their decision isn't entirely of their own making.  But in any case, you're right - there's plenty of reason for "civilians" to explore P3D, and there are plenty of major developers on board with it.  PMDG's products are wonderful but they're not the final vote on what is or isn't legit or acceptable.  I for one have long since stopped parsing and I'm happily standing by to see what P3D 2.0 turns out to be.  

 

 

I really have a hard time understanding why people are hung up over P3D usage ... it's so irrelevant it boggles my mind that it's discussed so much over and over and over.

 

Totally agree.

 

The big differences I see with FSX/P3D from the rest of the games or entertainment products if you will, are that they dont give you points, theres no campaign mode, its not about flying through squares other than an introduction training for complete new aspiring pilots. Even other so called simulations, have points, and world maps that are highly  condensed. (Train Simulator for one).

 

There is no other simulation in the PC market that uses so many real world details. Charts, Real World Weather, AI schedules, aircraft detailed modelling, and so forth. Not to my knowledge anyway.  So how this gets categorized as a game just doesnt make sense. 

 

I think the majority on here and using FSX, P3D, XPX are all about learning, and simulating what is either their real world careers, or what what could have been a career. We love aviation. And to simulate this with so much real world parameters makes it all that much better than anything out there. 

I'm guessing it's discussed so much because of PMDG's comments?

Rob

PMDG are a business. Of course they are going to slant everything in their favour. In fact, they should be questioned and challenged. Rob is correct. It's their interpretation, based on where they are taking their business. The obvious direction for them is the professional sector. If this turns out to be the case then they will abandon the sector that has brought then to this position and justify it in whatever way suits them. That's business.

...............

To paraphrase Alice (in Wonderland) "a simulator is whatever I say it is!"

january

 

Well... Lewis Carrol was a mathematician, and "Alice in Wonderland" is a wonderful exercise in logics. In that particular case Carrol is writing about the very concept of what a definition is. That book is much, much deeper than many people think it is. And the fact that also kids get to like it and understand some of its logical loopholes, is a tribute to the genius of its author.

 

Re: the main topic: does anyone really care? I mean, is that really important?