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skylane182

Model-only split-scimitar-winglets update

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Hello,

 

I'd like to ask whether there is a chance for a small visual-only split-scimitar-winglet update for the 737 NGX, as more and more 737NG are getting the SSWs these times. I know really a lot of people who are waiting for such an update and would pay a few dollars for that.

 

I know that it has been asked before, and the answer has been, that an update isn't possible because of missing performance data or a lot of programming would be needed. But what about a visual-only model update, like you did with the 748 model for your 744V1? For talented modellers like you are, it should be possible to build such an update in reasonable time.

 

The split-scimitar-winglets are so amazing-looking, and it would be really great if you could do small update for us. I'm sure a lot of loyal pmdg customers would pay for that.

 

Sorry for asking again, but I wanted to underline the demand, and mainly to ask for a visual-model-only update, in comparison to a flight-model update what would be too much work at this time.

 

Thank you so much,

Mathias

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I 100% agree. I believe that the fuel savings from the scimitars are not that noticeable on a flight-by-flight basis, and are more to save airlines money in the long run. Good point that they did a visual-only update with the -8 and Dreamlifter as well, which would have a MUCH bigger impact over the original model than scimitars. Also, the biggest benefit to simmers would be the added challenge during a crosswind, as I understand that the scimitars make them much more difficult. 

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I think most folks would rather have them busy on the 747v2 for now..

 

If it were a visual only change, Hamoody, then there would be no difference in flight or crosswind handling.

 

Full names in the PMDG forums please, Mathais

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If it were a visual only change, Hamoody, then there would be no difference in flight or crosswind handling.

There would be for those of us who have crash damage on, and even if we don't there are different crosswind restrictions for scimitar equipped aircraft. I suppose we could 'pretend' the scimitars are there, but we could also pretend that the flight test package is there, and you guys had no problem modeling that. Still, I of course have no idea what's going on within PMDG, and I assume you're waiting until you have time to model them completely. The 747 definitely takes priority over the scimitars!  But  I wonder, is there some legal restriction by APB that restricts you from modeling them?  

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I too would find a visual update great. For me this is more important then the Queen of the Skies. I too would pay a few dollars for this. No need for a performance update. 

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Yes, a visual only update would be really great!

 

I would pay for that, too.

 

I think there is no need of programming anything new, the 737 is great.

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Yes, a visual only update would be really great!

 

I would pay for that, too.

 

I think there is no need of programming anything new, the 737 is great.

 

Well, the 737NG in real-life has seen some improvements and changes from what is modeled in the NGX. Apart from the scimitar winglets, there were also changes in the cockpit, e. g. new engine start levers (rather switches now), no more yaw damper indicator and a more modern radio stack / transponder (quite for some time already), and certainly some more.

If the PMDG 747 gets an overhaul, why not the NGX. IMHO the 737NG is equally popular and certainly an important aircraft in real life.

 

Personally, I am not too interested in the 747 at all.

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I for one would rather see the full flight characteristics modeled than have an add-on sticker, RR has already explained the reasons why such a cosmetic feature will not happen, and this has been flogged to death 2 years ago, but good luck with your quest anyway.

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Well, the 737NG in real-life has seen some improvements and changes from what is modeled in the NGX. Apart from the scimitar winglets, there were also changes in the cockpit, e. g. new engine start levers (rather switches now), no more yaw damper indicator and a more modern radio stack / transponder (quite for some time already), and certainly some more.

If the PMDG 747 gets an overhaul, why not the NGX. IMHO the 737NG is equally popular and certainly an important aircraft in real life.

 

Personally, I am not too interested in the 747 at all.

You are talking about the latest production 737s. Most that have had split scimitar winglets fitted have the original flightdeck layout. Maybe the new layout will appear eventually as a PMDG 737MAX product?

 

For me 747v2 comes first and I'm not interested in a split scimitar update but it seems many people are. A "model only" expansion would probably sell very well.

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I for one would rather see the full flight characteristics modeled than have an add-on sticker,

 

Agreed, I sim from the flight deck, not a passenger window. If I want to go look at a wing for a few hours I'll go on a real plane.

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They did a visual only upgrade to the 8i for the 747. So I see no reason, why they couldn't offer this visual upgrade for the NGX as well.

I would love to have it, and I certainly would pay fo it!

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Anyone ever notice the split scimitar on only one wing?  I drive past Dulles every day and I see some 737s coming in for a landing (beautiful sight, btw) that have this on only one wing, mainly the right wing, not the left. Odd.

 

-Jim

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For me this is more important then the Queen of the Skies
Say ten Our Fathers and five Hail Marys for that comment and you will be forgiven.

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Hi,

Me too IMHO I'm not interested in a visual only B738 scimitar variant.

No sense for me...

I think that PMDG is a serious software house so they usually design tha most realistic fsx software vs real plane ... why they should begin to realize "eye-candy" versions of an aircraft with all wrong aerodynamics , uncorrect cockpit layout, unrealistic engine parameters (I mean not updated to the LEAP CFM56 version) and so on...

I hope that PMDG will continue to develop the best (most realistic)  fsx/PD addons and not "visual only" eye-candy replicas...

 Ciao

Andrea Buono

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Anyone ever notice the split scimitar on only one wing?  I drive past Dulles every day and I see some 737s coming in for a landing (beautiful sight, btw) that have this on only one wing, mainly the right wing, not the left. Odd.

 

Doubtful - just the angle you're seeing it from. There's no way you'd have mixed tips like that.

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Doubtful - just the angle you're seeing it from. There's no way you'd have mixed tips like that.

You'd like to think that but I know what I saw.  I too thought at first that there was no way the modification was only on one wing, but at the "different angles" I have seen this, I can attest to seeing it on one wing.

 

-Jim

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You'd like to think that but I know what I saw.  I too thought at first that there was no way the modification was only on one wing, but at the "different angles" I have seen this, I can attest to seeing it on one wing.

 

As I said earlier, there's no chance you're going to see this out there in regular ops. If an aircraft is going in for one, it's going in for the other. If one gets damaged, they both come off. At the very worst, you might ferry the plane to a repair station, but that wouldn't be a regular occurrence. If you had a picture, I'd concede the point, but absent that, I very, very highly doubt it.

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As I said earlier, there's no chance you're going to see this out there in regular ops. If an aircraft is going in for one, it's going in for the other. If one gets damaged, they both come off. At the very worst, you might ferry the plane to a repair station, but that wouldn't be a regular occurrence. If you had a picture, I'd concede the point, but absent that, I very, very highly doubt it.

Then we will agree to disagree.  Tech speak aside, I know what I saw.

 

-Jim

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Hi,

Me too IMHO I'm not interested in a visual only B738 scimitar variant.

No sense for me...

I think that PMDG is a serious software house so they usually design tha most realistic fsx software vs real plane ... why they should begin to realize "eye-candy" versions of an aircraft with all wrong aerodynamics , uncorrect cockpit layout, unrealistic engine parameters (I mean not updated to the LEAP CFM56 version) and so on...

I hope that PMDG will continue to develop the best (most realistic)  fsx/PD addons and not "visual only" eye-candy replicas...

 Ciao

Andrea Buono

There is no new engine or updated cockpit layout on retrofittet 737NG. Yesterday I was onboard a ten year old 737-800 which got the split-scimitar-winglets.

 

And that we all are flying from the cockpit is no argument, because if that counts, we won't need any external model. Of course I would prefer an updated flightmodel, but pmdg has no time for that, and I assume the differences would be really barely noticeable.

 

And an NGX model update would not hold up the 747 development: At this time of the 747 development I expect that the 747 models are finished already. (They even did the 5th engine transport option which is in reality really rare to see)

So I thought maybe the modellers could do a visual SSW update for the NGX while the rest of the team works on the 747 programming.

 

best regards,

Mathias Mueller

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Then we will agree to disagree.  Tech speak aside, I know what I saw.

 

Except the tech speak is where the important issues are...

 

In order to do that, you'd be operating on a ferry permit. That would require operating the aircraft non-revenue, as you can't operate permitted maintenance ferries as revenue flights. Airlines already schedule as much time in a day out of their aircraft because an aircraft that's just sitting there isn't making money. An empty aircraft that's burning fuel is avoided at all costs. Along those lines, you might see it once or twice, but to see it routinely suggests there's something else at play.

 

Seeing that you're likely seeing it from one angle - which lends a reason to why you're noticing it only on one wing - all logic and science points to perspective illusion, followed by resolution of the cognitive dissonance.


 

 


There is no new engine or updated cockpit layout on retrofittet 737NG.

 

There actually is though...

 

 

 


And an NGX model update would not hold up the 747 development

 

It wouldn't? Interesting that you can make a statement like this without part of our internal process...hmm...

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Ok, I think that's a misunderstanding, of course there are 737NG with updated cockpit layout and SSW, but there are also a lot of operates who retrofit the SSW to old 737NG, and a lot of those don't get any new things in the cockpit, only the SSW.

 

No, of course I don't know the processes in your team, that's just an assumption, as I stated in the explanation.

 

In the end it will stay your descision, it would just be really nice to get such an update, of course we can't demand it, but a lot of people are interested in it.

 

best regards,

Mathias Mueller

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I can see both sides of this conversation. Personally, I would also love to have an option for the SSW's. But on the other side of the coin, PMDG isn't known for doing things the Carenado way. For example, the 5th engine ferry pod was mentioned above. If it is done in typical PMDG fashion, it will effect the way the aircraft flies. This really is the best of both worlds. If PMDG were to choose to do the SSW's, with a proper air file for such an addition, that would justify a higher price. While I would like to see them on my NGX, I would prefer it to affect the aircraft performance accordingly. Most of us would not even be able to perceive the performance improvements, but it would be there. That's just what PMDG does. We expect nothing but the highest level of fidelity possible from PMDG. And that is their niche. Which they fulfill quite well. So that's my 2 cents worth. :)

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As I said earlier, there's no chance you're going to see this out there in regular ops. If an aircraft is going in for one, it's going in for the other. If one gets damaged, they both come off. At the very worst, you might ferry the plane to a repair station, but that wouldn't be a regular occurrence. If you had a picture, I'd concede the point, but absent that, I very, very highly doubt it.

I worked at DFW until January. United and Alaska had 737's with the split scimitar winglets, they always were on both wings.

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Doubtful - just the angle you're seeing it from. There's no way you'd have mixed tips like that.

 

You'd like to think that but I know what I saw.  I too thought at first that there was no way the modification was only on one wing, but at the "different angles" I have seen this, I can attest to seeing it on one wing.

 

Actually a damaged winglet can be removed and the aircraft operated with the single remaining winglet in place through the CDL, depending upon WHICH winglet is installed ( Factory, Aviation Partners Blended, Single, Scimitar, etc ) and which STC ( if non factory) it is installed under. Some approved CDLs allow it with limitations and performance penalties, and some do not.

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There actually is though...

Aircraft retrofitted with the split scimitar winglets won't also have the new flightdeck layout retrofitted too. There would be no economic benefit in changing that. No doubt there are detailed changes, such as on the FMC ident page.

 

While I'm not interested in having a visual only scimitar model, many others clearly are. I don't see any real difference between doing this and offering a visual only 747-400D with the 747v2.

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